Experimenting with the 113H drags

[Robert Janssen]

Meh... Not to dis you Sal, but i tried that or something similar like fifteen years ago. Wasn't worth the effort.

Really, I don't see anything difficult about making a square-slotted castle cartridge that would be soldered or screwed in place and ensure a nice fit.

Two problems though...

1) it would probably be me who has to do it
2) it would be about the same as a drop-in hexagon cartridge, which is pretty much where we started. Of course, there are ready made drag washers for it; thats nice

Has anybody yet had a chance to look at a 6-TRQ40 for comparison?

.

[Alto Mare]

Doc, please excuse my drawing. Do you mean something like this? I'm showing a square, simply because it is easier to draw . Hexagon would keep the washers at a nice size.


I drew something similar and was trying to get someone to make me one out of ss. Mine was just an extension of the gear wall, so we could add more washers, but then George came up with a great idea about using thinner washers, I believe he's able to place (7) washers in the stack, so I let this one go. Maybe we might have to go that way, but it's nice to explore.
If these get made, do you think they will need to be secured? I'm thinking they can just slide in the groves...if made tight.
Sal

Alan and Doc, I just measured the gear  thickness  at the base and was surprised to see that it is 4.5mm. This tells us that a little more than half of the gear teeth from the bottom are solid. Is this still a concearn?

The notched area on the baja is also paper thin, but that one is ss. That's one nice looking gear, almost as good as mine

[Cone]

I was considering making an insert myself. I wanted to try to make it and then use it as a form for casting the insert out of aluminum. I have a small lathe and a mill but no rotary table. I considered using a bad gear as a mold with a piece of hex stock or similar on the interior and pouring aluminum in the space. I haven't had the time yet to try it yet. A cast insert would be a lot easier to make. At least thats my thinking. Bob

[Alto Mare]

Yes Bob, I remember me and you talking about it. Sorry, I forgot to mention it. My only concearn with that was with you using aluminum, but I'm not sure if that would be a problem or not.
Sal

[Alto Mare]

OK, I just checked the 5-113H ss gears


On the left I have the Newell , in the center the Baja and on the right the Accurate.
There is planty of meat by the teeth, what I've been doing above should work with these without any issues, no inserts needed.
The Newell is very similar to the Baja, the Accurate has a little more meat by that area.
Yes, I will be trying it on these, unless Doc feels bad for me and volunteers
So, I just wanted to mention that the six groves will work on the ss gears that I'm showing.
Sal

[doradoben]

Alto Mare, would it be possible to make a bushing for the center hole in the 113hn main gear and then use that whole gearset in a 113h??  And.. I agree with Alan that this has been an interesting thread to read. Thanks for posting this creative thinking..

[Cone]

Thanks Sal, I may try this if I can get up the nerve to mill the slots in my ss gears. I was going to at least put a 7 + 1 drag in the 114h but I do like the idea of keyed drag washers. If it doesn't work out I can blame you.    just kidding, I take responsibility for what I do and realize these reels and myself have limits. Bob

[Alto Mare]

Bob, don't do anything to the 5-114H, well except for the casting, I would love to see how that turns out.
I don't see any issues milling the slots to the  5-113H. If you're worried about srewing up the gear, don't do it .
If you're doing it freehand as I did, you need to be relaxed and not care if it doesn't work out.

Doraboden, sorry, I need more explanation

[Robert Janssen]

Doc, please excuse my drawing. Do you mean something like this? I'm showing a square, simply because it is easier to draw . Hexagon would keep the washers at a nice size.

Almost. In the first instance I meant this



And in the second instance i meant this-- this would allow one to trim the tabs on a round-tabbed drag washer (ie 6-525) to a square shape and give full support on edges and sides, more like a square spline profile.

Imagine a cylinder with an outside diameter equal to the inside diameter of the main gear, and an inside diameter equal to that of the drag washer. So, wall thickness a bit more than 1 mm then. Cut six slots through the wall, drop it into the main gear and fix in place.




Doradoben, no- I suggested someone should follow up on this sort of thing last summer sometime; i don't think they ever did. In the case of the 113HN specifically, no- the pinion is different.

.

[doradoben]

I like the hex sleeve. Thanks for posting the photo...

[Alto Mare]

Hello Doc, Both pieces make sense to me, but I really like the hexagon shaped one. You do some beautiful work Doc.
Are those two pins glued, I know it's probably easier said than done, but wouldn't it be better to mill them as one unit?
I relly like the design and there shouldn't be any reason to secure it in place, we would utilize the two existing tabs on the gear.
Doc, did you read my other question above, about the wall at the bottom of the 114H gear being 4.5mm thick. Do you believe this will be a problem using one of the gear than I customzed? The bottom half of the  teeth are solid.
Thank you!
Sal
Again, these upgrade would be for some gears, the 113h ss should be ok as is to work with.
I wish i could see a picture of the two speed boss gears, just to compare things.

[Keta]

This could be water cut.

[Robert Janssen]

This could be water cut.

Yes, I considered that too. Not so sure how it would turn out. Waterjetting usually stays within 0.1 mm or so, but can leave rough edges and diverge from true 90* cuts, but maybe that can be adjusted. Waterjet + tumbling would help. Or laser cut it? It doesn't need to be perfect, but some degree of precision would be nice. Water or laser would also make it easy to do say, a dodegon as shown in that earlier thread. I mean, if we're gonna do it, might as well go all the way, right?

But, yes-- that would be a very good method of manufacture; far better than milling or broaching.

Are those two pins glued, I know it's probably easier said than done, but wouldn't it be better to mill them as one unit?

No, brazed. Turned the od on the lathe, did the hex and two opposing slots on the mill and rotab. Brazed the pins and trimmed them to length last. Fits very nicely.

(some of y'all might be able to do something similar at home. Now, where would you find something cylindrical on the outside, and hex on the inside? Come on people... think.)

...wouldn't it be better to mill them as one unit?

Meh... lotta work that way. Need some dedicated tooling, lotta flippin' around... But an extruded profile on the other hand- NOW we're talkin'. That beats all.

...other question above, about the wall at the bottom of the 114H gear being 4.5mm thick. Do you believe this will be a problem using one of the gear than I customzed? The bottom half of the  teeth are solid.

Dunno. Really, you could maybe cut right through the whole wall without ill effect. Oh, idunno... I just like clean things. Do as you like.



.

[john2244]

Cylindrical on the outside and hex on the inside==a socket wrench/ratchet, 3/4" or 13/16" might work for a 4/0 main gear. Or maybe even a larger size by shaving down the outside of the socket.

John

[Alto Mare]

Very clever John, it couldn't be anything else . Good job!

Doc, you're full of surprises........I Like it , keep it up  .