alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial Newell 200/300/400Series,Penn112H&Jigmasters,&ProGear 255/251 5+1Drag - $29
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
September 24, 2018, 08:01:54 PM *
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Author Topic: Newell 200/300/400Series,Penn112H&Jigmasters,&ProGear 255/251 5+1Drag - $29  (Read 106476 times)
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Bryan Young
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« Reply #195 on: August 14, 2017, 04:14:09 PM »

I'm sorry for not responding earlier. I was traveling and then thisnpost didn't show up on my feed for some reason.

This kit will fit the 210. It's not indicated because there so few 210s that I missed it.

Anyway, the difference between my kit and the kit from SmoothDrag or Pen HT-100 kits are this is a 5-stack system whereas the Smoothdrag and HT-100 kits are 3-stack systems.

You may purchase them from a MysticParts.com.

Thank you for your interest.

Bryan
« Last Edit: August 04, 2018, 11:12:24 AM by mizmo67 » Logged

Cheesy I talk with every part I send out and each reel I repair so that they perform at the top of their game. Cheesy
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« Reply #196 on: January 04, 2018, 02:11:05 AM »

I was sorry to hear about the trouble you just had, Bryan, when you told me about the theft of my drag kit off the postal truck, but I didn't know how many shipments were stolen until I read your post in ">For Sale>Ultimate Upgrades..." That just made it so much more awful. Jeez, I dislike thieves.

The thing is, I've been wanting to update this thread with some lessons learned while upgrading quite a few drags using your Ultimate Upgrades. The timing might not be great, as I'm sure you are distracted, but here goes anyway.

First, here's a list of reels I've already upgraded, or are in the process of upgrading:
Penn 146, to 5-stack
Penn 145, to 5-stack
Penn 501, to 5-stack
Penn 99, to 5-stack
Penn 113H, to 7-stack
Penn 114H, to 7-stack
Daiwa 400H, to 5-stack
Newell C220, to 5-stack
Newell S229-5, to 5-stack
Newell S332-5, to 5-stack (soon)
Newell S338-5, to 5-stack
Newell S533-4.6, to 5-stack (soon)

Now, these reels were not all upgraded at once, and all of them have other upgrades as well. I've fished six of them so far post-upgrade, and plan to fish all of them eventually. They all worked extremely well, except the Penn 501. Which is how I learned (or more accurately, relearned) something to watch out for when doing these drag upgrades.

Around Thanksgiving, I was shallow water rockfishing at San Nicolas Island with 8-10 oz of lead using the 501 on a 30# rig and the 99 on a 40# rig. What happened was, while setting drag, it was significantly harder to get 9 lb of drag from the Penn 501 than it was to get 12# of drag from the Penn 99.

During my Christmas vacation, I've been doing more upgrades, particularly several of the Newells. But, before starting, I wanted to get to the bottom of the problem with the Penn 501. What I found eventually, was pretty simple but easy to miss. The steel gear I put in the 501 did not have the grooves (for the eared washers) cut all the way down to the flat in the bottom of the gear-cup, where the first CF washer sits. The grooves were cut just far enough down for a standard CF-keyed washer-CF combo to raise the first eared washer up into the groove, allowing the eared washer to compress the stack below it, without bottoming in the groove. However, when the standard CF-keyed washer-CF combo was replaced with the thinner parts from the Ultimate Upgrades kit, the eared washer would bottom in the grooves before compressing the CF-keyed washer-CF combo underneath it. I was able to resolve the problem by adding some thickness to the CF-keyed washer-CF stack that goes into the gear first.

I don't recall now exactly how the problem was resolved in every reel since I figured out the Penn 501, but some ways to increase the thickness included changing the initial, thin-thin-thin, stack as follows:
1) std CF-thin keyed washer-thin CF
2) std CF-thin CF-thin keyed washer-thin CF
3) std CF washer-std keyed washer-thin CF
4) std CF-std keyed washer-std CF

It took some trial and error, because the steel gears, even the SS gears in the Newells, did not have the grooves all cut to the same depth, not even to the same depth on both sides of the same gear. Basically, I would put in Stacks 1), 2), 3), or 4) and use a small punch to check the height of the stack vs the height of the groove-bottom. If the height of the Stack was above the height of the groove-bottom, then the eared washer would be free to compress the stack. When I got the stack just right, as it seemed to be on the Newell C220 and S229, it was amazing how quickly and effortlessly I could get the drag up to 10-15 lbs.

Of course, another option would have been to Dremel the groove-bottom deeper in the gear, but having done that about a year ago with the gear in the Penn 113H, I did not want to go that route again. The steel gears are tough, it was very hard to do, it took a long time, and a few times it seemed I might ruin the gear, ruin my Dremel, or injure myself. [And so yes, I did encounter this problem at least a year earlier, but somehow it failed to register with me a year later when upgrading the Penn 501.]

OK, a few lessons learned here:
1) The drag upgrade kits are great, however, every reel is a little different. The good news is that there is room to play around a bit with the drag stack if need be.
2) If the drag upgrade does not make it extremely easy to get the drag up to 10-15 lbs, then something is not right in the drag stack, and take a close look at the depth of the grooves in the gear-cup.
3) If the grooves in the gear (for the eared washers) are not cut all the way down to the bottom of the gear-cup, check to make sure the first CF-eared washer-CF, or whatever you replace it with, clears the height of the groove-bottom.

That's it. I'm sure it could be said in fewer words, but I'm not known for fewer words. Cheesy

« Last Edit: January 04, 2018, 02:17:07 AM by fishmeluck » Logged

Give a man a fish and he will have fish for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day.
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« Reply #197 on: January 04, 2018, 06:09:27 AM »

Thanks for that, but be careful with your newells. Looks like they all have graphite spools. With the drag at 15lbs the spool can break in half and push the spindle thru the side plate. Ask me how I know. The 500 series should be ok but the smaller ones(200 &300 series) are good until about 10lbs can fail at 15lbs. I have the kits in my newells and they're buttery smooth. The graphite spools are great for casting distance for 20-40 mono not for heavy braid, get some aluminum spools. Also on the 500's I think you can get up to about 20lbs of drag.
When those reels were designed I don't think they envsioned CF drags and braided line. I have a herd of them and fish the heck out of them but I've broken a few too pushing them beyond their limits.
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Bryan Young
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« Reply #198 on: January 04, 2018, 07:31:10 AM »

Thanks Paul and Sheridan.  Great information.

I run into the same problems with many reels even using Pennís replacement HT-100 drags because as you said (Paul), the slot depth can be different even in the same gear.

Luckily for me, I have a The same size washers in different thicknesses. It can be more challenging for others.  Itís hard to make an easy drop in kit for all reels, and I hope at lease itís a drop in kit for 95+% of the reels.
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Cheesy I talk with every part I send out and each reel I repair so that they perform at the top of their game. Cheesy
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« Reply #199 on: January 04, 2018, 10:09:38 PM »

Thanks Sheridan and Bryan.

Sheridan, I plan to put 40# braid and 25# mono topshot on the C220 and the S229, so overdoing it on the drag won't be a problem. On the S332 and S338, it is 65# braid and 40# mono. They probably will see 12# of drag. The S533 is loaded with all 50# mono, and it has a Tiburon frame. I'm not worried about the S533, even at 60# line, which it probably won't see. It's only the S332 and S338 I'm concerned about. Not that I want to push the envelope as far as you have, but I would love to hear exactly how you broke some of your graphite Newell spools.

You know, there are only two screws fastening each side-plate inner-ring to the base which is clamped to the rod. That means all loads applied to the side plates are transmitted via four screws in the base; on each side of the base those screws are only 1.25" apart. Structurally, I would not say it's not a great setup to go up more than one line class. With Tiburon frames though, it likely would not a problem to go up two line classes in the 200/300 series reels.

Here are a few more thoughts about the Newells. At first, I balked at Alan T.'s $38 for a SS arm with kokelar grips. Then, I looked online at the price of original Newell handles. They go for $35-$39. So, how much am I really losing, if I upgrade all my reel handles and sell off all the original handles? Or, why not put the longer 300 series graphite handles on the 200 series reels, and sell the 200 series handles? Then I wondered, how much is a new Tiburon frame kit? About $65. How much would a set of Newell base, bars, and clamp sell for? About $40-$55.  Heh, heh, there's no end to this is there?

Bryan, aside from the reels listed in my previous post, I've been buying and selling reels on Ebay for nigh on three years now, keeping steel gears, power handles, rings in good condition, and other desirable parts, then servicing and reselling reels I didn't want to keep. And, with all the drag upgrades, I've acquired quite the collection of CF and metal washers. Not as many as you have, but usually enough to play with and get the job done.

One reason I wanted to post what I did was to let others know that if the drop in kit didn't work perfectly at first, not to get frustrated because they have options. The drop in kit is just what it needs to be, but the reels they go into were produced for decades, and there can be significant variation. At the very least, everyone must remove the existing stack of thicker CF and metal washers, so they will necessarily have a few standard thickness parts at least to work with. If this was too easy, it would not be as much fun. That is how I look at it.  Grin
« Last Edit: January 04, 2018, 10:11:17 PM by fishmeluck » Logged

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« Reply #200 on: January 04, 2018, 11:09:28 PM »

1st one I blew up was a g332 with izor 30lb. We were at clipperton island and tuna fishing was bad so we got in the skiffs a brought some jig rods to screw around with on the way to landing on the island. Saw a splash, threw an iron at it zing-pow spool split and went thru the side plate. The other was a Gadalupe island 35kts of wind and super scratchy. Flylined a sardine on 20lb izor just to get bit. got a yellowfin to deep color zing-pow spool split and went completely thru the right side plate. Clearly in both cases I was way undergunned but was using mono both times at the line rating for the reel. I kind of think the 220 just got too hot on the clicker side and the heat was a big factor likely the bearing went bad. I had that thing on for well over an hour. Never knew what i hooked at clipperton,likely some kind of ulua.
Just be careful with graphite spools, I still use them because I like the extra distance. A 5 stack in those is a bit of overkill but hey are super smooth. I've been lucky that Bryan's drag kits always just dropped right in for me. Thanks for posting for when it eventually occurs.
Love my Newells!
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« Reply #201 on: January 04, 2018, 11:15:21 PM »

Sheridan, were you fishing with mono on both occurrences or braid with mono tops?
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Cheesy I talk with every part I send out and each reel I repair so that they perform at the top of their game. Cheesy
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« Reply #202 on: January 05, 2018, 06:16:55 AM »

I had 30lb braid on the 220 and all mono on the 332. It was also izor line that's usually tests a little higher that what's on the label.
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Bryan Young
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« Reply #203 on: January 05, 2018, 06:46:16 AM »

I had 30lb braid on the 220 and all mono on the 332. It was also izor line that's usually tests a little higher that what's on the label.
Thanks Sheridan for sharing your experiences with graphite spools.  I've never had a problem myself, but you have put in much more Newell fishing time in than I.  I have my 220 loaded with 50# braid with a 25# top shot.  I fish this reel with 10# max drag and have not had a problem yet...the word is yet.  My other 220 has 20# test and fish that at 3#-7# of drag.  I don't this this will be too much of a problem.

My 300 Series are rigged with 65# braid with 30#-35# top shot.  Prior to that, the reels were filled with 30# mono.  I too have not had any issues...Yet.  We'll see how this fairs...
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Cheesy I talk with every part I send out and each reel I repair so that they perform at the top of their game. Cheesy
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« Reply #204 on: January 05, 2018, 07:48:46 AM »

I have fished my Newells really hard for 500 trips and 20 lb of drag and no issues so Bryan you will be okay. I loaned Capt George a 220 just for cobia fishing and he caught loads of them and no issue. Mono on all of my Newells.
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Swami805
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« Reply #205 on: January 05, 2018, 01:17:35 PM »

Where those graphite spools or aluminum? I'd think 20lbs on aluminum  would be fine, I'd be a little hesitant with 20lbs on graphite. Just my expieience.
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MolBasser
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« Reply #206 on: April 13, 2018, 02:40:15 PM »

Just bought this kit from MysticParts.  

I'm curious about how you go about measuring max drag, just out of curiosity.

MolBasser


"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 12:08:01 PM by mizmo67 » Logged
Bryan Young
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« Reply #207 on: April 13, 2018, 05:56:45 PM »

Hi Mol,

To measure max drag is commonly measured with a spring scale, like ones used to weigh your catch by tiring your line off to the hook of the scale.

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Cheesy I talk with every part I send out and each reel I repair so that they perform at the top of their game. Cheesy
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« Reply #208 on: April 13, 2018, 06:00:00 PM »

I mean do you just wrench down on the star and then pull the line with a scale?

lol.

I've never put my drags to a max test and now all of a sudden it interests me.

MolBasser
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« Reply #209 on: April 17, 2018, 08:00:40 AM »

Just got my kit!  wo0t!

I also got a double dog bridge and side plates...... Building the beast.

MolBasser
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