Shimana Triton BeastMaster 30/50 Silicone Ring

[Potomac Hooker]

Dawn,
I see from several posts on here you were looking into the Silicone Rings for the BeastMasters. Were you ever able to come up with any suitable replacement options for them?

I posted in the thread linked below earlier today looking for options but then later saw a few posts where you were looking into it so figured I would post here and ask.


http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=6726.msg78978#msg78978

[Dawn]

Hi
No I never did come up with the pressure plate.  I've left that to Glenn in San Diego.
I do have the Carbon fiber drag washers.

Dawn

[Tightlines667]

I just finished a complete service of my first Shimano BeastMaster 80/130 2 speed this last weekend.  The reel had poor free spool, and despite the drag actually working had a spool that was rubbing, and a grinding noise that (along with the handle cranking) was notably worse  under pressure.  As suspected the reel suffered from the dreaded dissolved pressure plate silicon disk issue.  There was black gunk everywhere on the drag side of the spool/frame.  After recieving advice from this forum, Glen, Tim Schofield (Scumline Fishing,AU), and Dawn (SmoothDrag)...I decided to do the following:

1)Normal dissambly, through cleaning, opened and greased bearings (they were fine but Tiagra 80W bearings can be used as replacements).

2)I ordered a 6"X6"X0.50" Carbon Fiber Drag material sheet from Dawn ($31.45 w/shipping).
Used the old Titanium (Cotton fiber material) drag disk as a template, and cut an upgraded carbon fiber drag disc.  I converted it to 'wet' by lubing w/Cal's.  This made a near perfect replacement for the original.   

3)I ordered a 6"X6"X1/16"(1.59mm) Silicon-Butyl-rubber sheet from McMaster-Carr (~$3.50+shipping).  Using the pressure plate as a template, cut a thin cardboard template and then a replacement for the silicon pressure plate donut.  I glued this directly to the pressure plate with 3M 1300 glue($50.25/qt+shipping).  I got the glue from McMaster-Carr as well, and chose it because it is specifically designed for gluing this type of rubber to aluminum and has a high temp rating.  Though there are likely other products (designed for bonding gaskets to metal) that would also work.  It is my understanding that the original disc was 2.0mm thickness which I think was aprox the same as my replacement + the adhesive thickness.

4)Reassembled/greased/oiled as outlined in other posts on this forum.  Performed final spool shimming (with Tiagra 80 shims), in order to obtain good free spool/drag characteristics. 

The end result was a reel w/good free spool, smooth drag (w/expected drag curve), and smooth/solid shifting and cranking.  The reel seemed to transition smoothly at low drag settings, and had a smooth drag throughout the drag range.  Happy customer.  Hopefully I can re-service this reel after a year of heavy use to ensure my modifications hold up under real-world use.

This is the rubber I used:

Ultra-Strength Silicone Rubber
Color: See below
Temperature Range: See below
Tensile Strength: See below
Use indoors and outdoors
A special formulation makes this material much more tear resistant while still maintaining its flexibility across a wide temperature range.
Sheets—Smooth Finish
Color: Orange-red or gray
Temperature Range: -80° to +400° F
Tensile Strength: 1,200 psi

Rubber only (not adhesive) meets MIL-ZZR-765, Class 2A and 2B. Adhesive is acrylic and has a temperature range of -20° to +180° F. Width and length tolerances are ±1/8" for 6" × 6" and 12" × 12" sheets and ±3/8" for 24" × 24" sheets. Durometer hardness is 50A (medium). Durometer tolerance is ±5.

Orange-Red Plain Back
1/16"   ±0.015"   5787T31   $3.54
Product Detail
Ultra-Strength Silicone Rubber, Plain Back, 1/16" Thick, 6" x 6", Orange-Red


And this is the adhesive:


Reach full strength in 24 hours. These products are compliant under all state VOC rules in effect on March 1, 2012, except in California, Connecticut, the D.C. area, Delaware, Maine, Maryland, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, and Northern Virginia (unless noted).

1300/1300L are strong, heat-resistant adhesives. Bond metal, butyl rubber, neoprene, SBR, and wood. Not for use on EPDM rubber. Temperature range is -30° to +300° F. Color is yellow. 1300 is a medium-thickness brush-on adhesive. Begins to harden in 12 minutes. 1300L is a sprayable adhesive, begins to harden in 8 minutes, and meets MMM-A-121.

3M No.   Size       Each
1300   1-qt. Can   7509A73   $50.25

[Robert Janssen]

Very good, Tightlines.

Sounds like a job well done.

.

[ohfishalee]

EDITED:

any pics/tutorial?


and how similar is the 80/130 to the TTS 80w?

[Tightlines667]

I'm just getting ready here to service 2 Triton Beastmaster 50/80s.  Planning on making a cardboard template, then cutting 2 replacement silicon pressure pads out of Butyle Rubber from McMaster Carr.  Got all new bearings, bellevilles, thrustwasters from Shimano, a handle from Alan, and upgraded CF washers from Dawn at Smoothdrag.  Thanks Alan, and esp. Dawn!  I will keep you posted on results if I can find the time.  Here is a picture depicting some of the compatable parts and their numbers.

[Tightlines667]

Here are a couple of pics depicting the old setup and the new parts.  I cut the Butyl rubber discs w/a template and will glue them in place to replace the degraded silicon pads.  The outter plate actuslly grabs the rubber with authority when engaging the drag, but still offers sum cushion.

[Tightlines667]

After a prolonged absence due to travel and illness, I was able to finally finish these resls up last night.   First reel took $180 in parts, second one was $120 in parts.  I replaced all bearings with new shinano open ARB, all new Bellevilles, preload, and theust washers, new carbon fiber drag discs, and 2 new Butyle Rubber discs (to replace the silicon pressure pads), a few misc screws (5 ratchet, 1 post).  The reels seem to work fine w/o any shimming, but the first one is missing a lever hub ratchet and o-ring (I was able to find a replacement o ring at the hardware store).  This part is unavailable, and means the drag lever may not have a positive click when adjusted.  It should remain put though given the fact it has a spring loaded pawl at the tip.  The second reel has a badly worn clicker pawl, and ratchet and losses its alert function after transferring out of freespool.  These parts are no longer avail, and the pawl can not be shimmed.  Due to the config along the spool shaft, decreasing belleville stack thickness, or shimming on the left side of spool, will not move the spool far enough right to engage the worn clicker.  Alternatively, I would normally shim under the clicker ratchet plate, but I had to drill out and retap 3 of 4 screws, so I don't feel comfortable elevating the plate.  Currently, it will remain a clickerless reel.  

Both reels needed some deburring (1 spool shaft on both ends, both lever indicators, many smaller misc parts).  Also, I needed to remove and reglue both felt strips on the drag plates, and replace a left spool bearing retainer clip.  The Butyl rubber discs really grab nicely and ensure positive drag engagement.   But, curriously enough, they make a funny 'Squeegee' sound, when cranking slowly, with the lever just one stop past freespool.  As is typical with these reels, the freespool is not good.  Too many parts along the spool shaft.  

Oh yea, there was one other litte 'hitch'.  Mr. Tani sent me a complete NOS handle assembly off of a shimano TLD 50 2-speed to replace a broken plastic handle knob on one of these reels.  Unfortunately, I discovered the handle arm does not fit this reel.  The knob appearred to be the same, so I heated the handle bushing with a torch and managed to pull it off the new one.  Then reversed the process and pressed it into place on the old arm (used a benchtop vise).  I overdid the heat a bit, and bubbled the new plastic a bit, and since the old one was threaded, and the new one had a wider cross hatch on it, I pressed the handle in further then stock.  It seems to be solid and is functioning properly.  The customer is happy with my $15 fix, as oppossed to the alernatuve of buying a new Tiagra 80 assembly for much more.

What amazes me, is Shimano's simple design changes that were introduced around this time with this model (and possibly others?), to make the drag chamber waterproof.  

These old, heavy, workworses are true tanks, and showed no signs of corrosion on the frame, spool, or other core parts (only bearings, bellevilles, and a few small parts). They last forever.  Too bad parts availability can be an issue.

[day0ne]

EDITED:

any pics/tutorial?


and how similar is the 80/130 to the TTS 80w?

The Beastmasters and the TTS's are quite a bit different. One is a 2 speed, the other a single speed. One has the silicone problem, the other doesn't. The TTS is closer to the TLD if anything.