New Guy with Penn International 30 Problem

[Rwade27]

Ok guys, I am starting to service my own reels and have freespool problems with a old Penn 30 single speed. I serviced a 30VSW and a 50VSW first that were working fine with the help of tutorials here. They were working great before and after their first service which was overdue. These were the first reels I have ever really opened up so I wanted to start with reels that were working properly. Now I want to get this old Penn Int 30 working. Here is the story with this reel. It is a 1984 Penn 30 I bought used. I took it out after buying it and spooled it up with 40lb mono. I set the drag to about 12lbs at strike. The drag felt smooth pulling on the spring scale but when lever is backed off to free position it would not freespool. I took it along that day and landed a small yellowfin tuna and it did ok, but it can't be used for much with so much resistance in freespool. I took it to local tackle shop which is authorized Penn repair shop too. Told him the problem, he checked it out and said it needed new drag. I told him to go ahead and fix it. Got it back, took it out next trip, same problem. I put it in my basement for a while and now here I am! I have torn it down a few times and cannot see anything wrong. The bearings are smooth and it freespools great when drag is set to 5lb at strike. Any more than 5lb I lose freespool. I pulled up the schematic while it was torn down and do not see any missing pieces. The belleville washers are stock ()(). I noticed with the lever in free and the preset knob backed all the way out the spool is toward the right side plate and will not spin free, if preset knob is turned in a half turn it will freespool normal. I appears to have the new Dura-Drag which also requires a new pinion gear/shaft from what I have read. Thoughts on what to do to get this reel back into service? Thanks-Rick

[Dominick]

Wade:  When I first joined this site I followed this post http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=137.0 for Penn 30.  I also made the sleeve.  It was fun getting it done this way.  If you have already followed this post then I don't have a clue as to what might be wrong.  There are a lot of guys that will chime in and try to answer you.  Dominick

[jg125]

I am no expert here but I have the same reel and looked at mine when I go from strike back to free spool my spool slightly goes towards my handle side might indicate a spring problem if this can help. Jay

[alantani]

you've got a big gold ring that holds the drag washer in place (shown nicely in your photo).  try putting the reel togethe without that ring and see if you get freespool back.  sometimes it gets in the way.  then make sure the bearings are sliding easily on the spool shaft.  and lastly make sure that the drag washer is properly shimmed so that it touches the left side plate bearing, but not the left side plate itself. 

[Rwade27]

Thanks for the replies. Dominick, I did follow that post and it helped me out. I did not make the sleeve yet. I want to troll with this reel so super long freespool is not that critical, but if I get it working right i will probably make one to learn. Alan, i went back into the reel and checked everything. It seems like a spacing problem so I really thought one of the things you listed would help. No luck though. The bearings move free on the spool shaft and the drag washer plate was not contacting the left side plate. I reassembled without the gold drag cover and same results. Has great freespool up to 5 lb drag at strike. I just tried setting the drag to 8lbs with a dumbell i found in case my spring scale was way off. With 8lb at strike it does not freespool.

[Tightlines667]

I have run into free spool issues as well when upgrading to the duradrag and/or modifying config and/or replacing the Bellevilles.  Based on the symptoms you are describing, Your spool needs to move further left at 0 preset, and free spool.  Be aware that the Bellevilles come in two different thicknesses, so if they had been 'upgraded' (or replaced) during the last service this could account for decreased spacing between the pinion and the right side of the spool.  Try adding a bearing thrust washer (shim), no key # (see Alan's post) to the inside of the bellevilles.   With spacing issues causing freespool problems..I've found that you should troubleshoot what is causing the issue (loss of freespool).  First Try spinning the spool with only bearings and then add shaft, bellevilles, then try w/spring, then w/drag plate, then add the cooling shield, then place the spool assembly on the left side plate and spin it, try adding pressure to the shaft when you do this, then try just attached sitting in the right side plate with bearing on drag disc and sum pressure there.  In this manner you can figure out what is creating the unwanted friction and be able to address it with appropriate shims.  I would caution you against using shims on the pinion bearing and make sure you keep total shimming within limits or damage could result at high drag settings at full. 

If the drag plate is not rubbing on the heat shield, or contacting the drag plate at free spool, and the spool is too far to the right...add a thrust washer to the left of the Bellevilles, or replace 2 or all 4 Bellevilles with the thicker ones.  I think these older reels typically utilized thin Bellevilles (and a thrust washer) while the newer reels with the duradrags have thicker Bellevilles and no thrust washer...maybe the original thin Bellevilles were retained when the other parts were upgraded, creating a spacing issue that expresses itself when the drag adj is 0 and lever at free spool.  The key when shimming is to try to diagnose the issue, then take baby steps (1 mos at a time) and test. 

Hope that helps. 
GL!

[Rwade27]

Tightlines, thanks for the help. I think I have a spool spacing problem and I don't know who did what to this reel before I got it. I will check out the other things you suggested when I get the parts I just ordered. Since I have no extra parts I ordered some various shims/thrust washers, and some different bellevilles including four of the ones the schematic calls for (18-20). I will compare the ones I ordered with whats in the reel now and hopefully get something figured out. Currently the reel has stock configuration ()() with no shims. One Belleville measures .050" thick and the stack came out to .214" or 5.4mm. Happy New Year everyone!

[Neil0164]

Please show a pic of eccentric part no19 which has the angles on it that creates the thrust against drag. sounds like someone has tried what i am doing   http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=9322.0   and over filled it.

[Rwade27]

Neil, It seems this cam could be my problem. I got some new bellevilles and shims but all the ones already in the reel measured the same as the new parts I got. So i went back into the reel to take a closer look at the cam for the drag lever to see if looked damaged or worn. I thought maybe I could modify it to give more drag pressure with less movement of the lever. It looks ok and I did not see how I could grind it to improve my problem. Also it was not available to buy a new one from penn parts. If this cam could ramp up more pressure on the drag with less travel  it would fix my reel.  Nothing is rubbing or binding just cant get more than 8lb at strike without loss of frespool. Here are the pics.

[Rwade27]

More pics

[alantani]

change out the belleville stack from "()()" to "(())".  that should increase your drag range.  if that does not work, you may need thicker bellevilles.  i do have some.   chage the configuration first and see.  also measure the id x od x th x ht of the bellevilles you have and i can see if i have any that will work. 

[Rwade27]

Alan and everyone, I made this way harder than it had to be. As Alan just advised the problem was just the belleville washers . I just put the reel together with an extra belleville in it like this ((()) and the stack of washers measured very close to the stock stack of ()() but the reel works fine now! This is the first reel I serviced that was not working properly prior to service so I learned the hard way after  taking this thing apart more times than I will admit. Thanks for the help. I left my scale on the boat so I dont know exactly what it will do now but I only wanted 10 to 12 lb at strike and i could only get 8 before. I did put  two 8 lb dumbells on the line and I was able to achieve that 16 lb with good freespool still.  Case closed!  Thanks again for the help

[Tightlines667]

Good job!

I'm glad to hear you got it sorted out. 

Note that if you feel the drag ramps up a little quick for you with this config.  You can lessen the curve slightly while still maintaining a high drag setting, and proper spacing for good free spool by going with a (((() config.  See the other thread on different Belleville config w/associated drag curves.

[Rwade27]

Tightlines, thanks for the info. When i get a chance to get back to my boat i will grab my scale and check out the drag range. I will go back into this reel and try what you suggest with the washers and also try to make my first spool sleeve now that I have the reel working right.

[alantani]

Alan and everyone, I made this way harder than it had to be.......

yeah, been there.  glad it all worked out.