alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial I'm a little lost here
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
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Legal Bill
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« on: January 16, 2014, 07:22:29 PM »

Like Mulder said, "I want to believe."  I want to believe I can mod my 113s and 115s to be stronger, tougher and better than a lot of modern big game reels.  But I'm having trouble with the Senator forum.  I can't find a thread that goes through the mods by the numbers.  Some talk about pinion gears, some talk about drag stacks, some talk about double dogs, some talk about "tanking" (what the hell is tanking?).  There are stainless steel replacement parts, there are bigger handles, there are different gear ratios.  Are there different pinion shafts?  I'm not even sure.  I just can't follow it all.  If I want to do any of this stuff, where do I get the parts?

In the other Penn forums, Alan did a thread that takes you through the mods based on best bang for the buck.  Is there anything like that for the Senator forum?  Anything that tells the reader where he can get the parts?

I want to believe...
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Chris Gatorfan
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« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2014, 08:08:04 PM »

I'll start by saying that the Senators are one of the easiest reels to work on. However there are different tweaks you can do to them to make them stronger all around.

1. You can contact Alan Tani about getting a new stainless steel sleeve with a SS Dog and the CF washer to go under the main gear. He sells these as a set with outstanding prices on them.

2. Contact Dawn - SmoothDrag - to get the CF Drag washers for your specific reel

(Those 2 steps should be your first priorities if cost at this time is an option. If not then continue on...)

3. I went with a second SS Dog on my reel at this point. Gives you the back-up support should one of your AR Dogs give way. Should be able to get a second from Alan, or you can either pm Keta for one, or go to mysticparts.com.

(The next steps can be done either way)

4. Next would be to look into getting a new SS gear set for your reel. Black Pearl has great deals on these and amazing quality on there parts.

5. Now look into getting a nice power handle. Alan and Keta both carry these, as well as SmoothDrag, MysticParts, and BlackPearl.

6. Lastly is the frame. Finding a good solid Half or full frame should round you out for strength upgrades. Broadway (Dom) has some half frames for the 115 coming any day now. Black Pearl has some full frames for the 115 coming soon and you can always check the web (eBay, etc.) to find some also.

I hope this helps.

"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
« Last Edit: August 04, 2018, 10:40:46 AM by mizmo67 » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2014, 08:51:31 PM »

The problem is Bill, All the modifications never come at the same time. They are ideas of the members here and each makes his own parts. The term Tank was made by a member here that tricked out a 113H with all the mods available and it is nicknamed the Tank. There is no one stop shopping here. It takes time, research and getting to know everyone here to get it done. This is not a store. Its a group of dedicated people that can guide you through your reel building, fixing and modifications. Now, You say you have 113's and 115's, are the 113's H models? These are high speed models with red side plates. If you have a regular 113 or 115, they have Black side plates. We can start there.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2014, 07:45:46 PM by Shark Hunter » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2014, 08:56:56 PM »

pretty much as above.  

first, a complete tear down and rebuild, getting a light coat of grease on all the metal surfaces.  an old toothbrush works here, along with any grease you want to use.  it's less important what grease you use, just as long as you use something.  

second, grease the 5 drags inside the main gear and replace the fiber washer with a carbon fiber drag washer.  

third, the handle.  of course, i like my 5/0 grip the best.  lee and i both make stainless steel arms.  

fourth, the stainless steel gear sleeve.  i have this farther down the line, because it's hard to round off the soft brass gear sleeve if you have properly greased drag washers.  may as well replace the brass dog with a stainless steel dog at this point.

fifth, a hardened stainless steel main and pinion gear.  

sixth, a frame.  

with any reel, i would go for the first three mods without hesitation.   i would only go with the last three if i had trouble, or if i knew i was going to get into some.  at the very least. do the first two.   Grin
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« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2014, 08:58:34 PM »

i will sticky this later.  thanks for asking!  alan
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Chris Gatorfan
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« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2014, 09:15:50 PM »

Wow guess i have learned alot more then i let on...Thanks on the sticky, glad i could contribute some good info to a new member.
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Lensters
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« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2014, 02:51:00 AM »

Bill,

I'm new here too, though I started working on reels in the '80s.  Just spent the last 12 hours reading, mostly about Senator upgrades.  Search this forum for "The Tank" and you will find two of the most useful threads you'll read.

Len
« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 02:51:41 AM by Lensters » Logged

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Disclaimer: My opinions, are mine and mine alone.  They should not be ascribed to Alan, moderators or anyone else on this site.  However, should you wish to, you may adopt them as your own.
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« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2014, 03:56:47 AM »

Welcome aboard Len.
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BMITCH
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« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2014, 03:59:38 AM »

Welcome Len!
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Legal Bill
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« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2014, 08:12:14 AM »

Thanks for all the responses.  Chris, I appreciate the time that was taken to lay it all out for me.  That post was a great start for me. And wow, i can't beleive I started a thread that Alan saw fit to pin!!!

I appreciate that this isn't a store and I regret if I seemed to be complaining.  I was just confused and really was not sure what mods are needed to allow other mods on a Senator.  For example, improving the drags and getting a biggger handle...does that require the stainless steel sleeve?  Thanks for addressing that above, Alan.  As also mentioned above, the parts seem to be available from different sources, and I'm just not sure how they work together.  Like the stainless steel gears and the hex drag washers.

Shark Hunter, my 113s are U.S made HSPs with red side plates.  I opriginally bought them to wire line for stiped bass, but they seem too powerful for that limited use.  Last season I hooked a big false albacore on one of them and had a blast fighting that fish.  It made me think the 113s could be moded to fight tunoids.  My 115s are much more recent Chinese made with black side plates.  I'd like to do what i could to them to improve their quality and reliability.  When I go off shore, it is possible that I could run into a good size yellowfin or bigeye tuna.  I have been watching Dom's thread about the one piece frames very closely.

Len, I did a search for the word Tank and the threads I found mostly started with work that someone was doing to their "tanked" reel.  I guess I'll look again.  Thanks.
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Chris Gatorfan
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« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2014, 08:48:28 AM »

Bill its nothing just glad i could help. you can do the drag upgrade and larger handle first. just keep in mind the the more pressure you have on the reel the more of a chance to start rounding off the brass, which is the reason we do the SS upgrade for the sleeve on them. The 9/0 sleeve kits can be had from Alan for $38.00. Very good price for a very worthy upgrade. and with the CF and metal drag washers for a for a 5+1 drag stack from Smooth Drag at $27.00, you would be set to tackle some nice fish.
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alantani
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« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2014, 08:50:04 AM »

the stainless steel gear sleeves are most critical for the reels "in the middle."  

the squidders are so small and the drag settings are so light that a stainless steel gear sleeve is often not needed unless you are going to seriously lean hard on the reel.  then you walk a fine line, because if you exceed the capacities of a soft brass squidder gear sleeve using by using stainless, then the softer brass dogs and maganese/bronze allow main gears can quickly give out.  

the 113h, 114, 114h and 115 gear sleeves are also heavy enough that the brass gear sleeve should do the job.  as with the smaller reels, the large stainless steel gear sleeves will also allow you to go to such high pressures that you can damage the teeth on the main gears.  

where these stainless steel gear sleeves prove their worth is in the jigmaster 500's, the mariner 49's, and the plain black side plate 112 and 113 senators.  particularly the black side plate 113 senator, because it is the largest reel that uses the "jigmaster" gear sleeve.  naturally, it is this black side plate 113 senator that enjoys the singular distinction of having the lowest "power to weight" ratio of all the senators made.  

as with all reels, most of the damage you see in older reels is due to corrosion.  the second source of damage is to the drive train as a result of sticky drags.  so the first thing to always do with any reel is to get some grease on all the metal surfaces and then switch out the drags to greased carbon fiber.  that will eliminate 99% of the wear and tear you see in a reel. after that, everything else is bling.  the exception is the 113 senator, where i feel a stainless steel gear sleeve is an absolute necessity.  get all of this done first, then let's start talking about the gear sleeves, dogs, gears, handles, and frames.  
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« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2014, 08:51:40 AM »

Bill,

I'm new here too, though I started working on reels in the '80s.  Just spent the last 12 hours reading, mostly about Senator upgrades.  Search this forum for "The Tank" and you will find two of the most useful threads you'll read.

Len

welcome to the dark side! 
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« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2014, 09:18:36 AM »

Alrighty Bill!
This Venture really depends on how much you really want to Hot Rod your reels. It is all a personal preference and really just how deep you want to go into your wallet! Grin Me, I dig pretty deep, Following Sal's lead on most of the projects he does. Yes, I'm a copy cat, but that's how I learned.
If you really want to jump in with both feet, Its best to order the parts for both reels at the same time.
For the 113, The SS Sleeve is first, You get these from Alan, You can keep the stock gears, but I go with SS, Black pearl's to be specific. Then a Tiburon Frame, this is your next step toward a Tank. Unfortunately, this will be an item you will have to find off this site, unless someone wants to chime in.
If you go with the SS Gears, you need a stainless yoke, These are available from Dawn and Keta. Dawn also has the drag washers you need and Keta is our stainless steel Guru Here. He makes some mighty fine stainless Dogs and Handles that are second to None! You can also buy stainless handles and Handle grips from from Alan. I won't go into the double dogging yet, you have your work cut out for you as it is!
If you need anything, give me a Holla! I'm here to help! Grin
This is the Tank Thread. Its 31 pages Long!
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=3083.0
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« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2014, 09:41:53 AM »

Len and Bill,

If you want ALL the details on the Tank, read what I call the "Tank Chronicles" aka "Penn 113h Reel/Tank" and "Expeirmenting with 113h drags" both posts started by our resident "Dr. Tankenstien" aka Alto Mare aka Sal.

This forum is much like a virtual reel maintenance shop/lab with virtual projects going on all over the place by different people. Alan Tani (there's another Alan of Black Pearl products that offers some great parts as well), I call "Saint Alan" is the patron saint of fishing reels and we are the monks doing our individual tasks.

This place reminds me of the old days when I would go to the auto "speed shop" and get custom speed/hot rod parts made by different vendors to add/build my hot rods. Same difference  Roll Eyes just for fishing reels, etc.. Just like with auto's, if you up the performance, then you must upgrade the WEAKEST LINK(S).

Welcome aboard Len and Bill, just be carefull hanging out in the sections were they talk about "braided line/spectra"  Shocked. I cant figure out what the "hellp" those guys are saying over there. All I knows is that the minute they get around me and start that talking like: "serve me up, and wind-me-on and then loop-to-loop me there going to have a real fight on there hands  Roll Eyes.  They even have one of our most stable and solid members Keta (aka Lee) talking like that. I think there smoking something strange, besides I think there "beat nick's and new age fangled people that dont want us to understand what they are doing  Grin Grin Grin. Now they got me hanging around those sections, Im going to see what there smoking and doing.  Shocked

Other than those strange area's you ought to be happy as a clam here.

Take care,

Leo
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