Best Rod Blank for Ulua Shorefishing

[cbar45]

A low-mount rod-and-reel in use with a belt braced on the angler, as described in your answer to Question #1, does not generate the same amount of leverage as does bracing the stainless rod butt itself into the rocks.

Besides improved leverage, having the reel mounted high on a rod--solidly supported by either the rocks or in the holder--allows one the following safety benefits which I've tried to bring up more than once.

1. Supported footing on uneven or slippery rocks, often times at the edge of a cliff.
2. Opportunity for your muscles to rest and recover while the fish is taking line.
3. A backup/emergency means (holder) of fighting the fish while minimizing strain, should the angler feel it necessary.

Bottom line: When slide-baiting for very large fish off a rocky cliff, you do not want to be connected to your equipment--whether via belt, harness, etc--in such a way that it's possible to be pulled over the edge.

Secondly, I am not a distance caster. So can't answer your question of why there are no HI or American teams in your events. But you might want to look up the casting expo/tournament held by Jerry Valentine on Oahu during the mid-late 90's.

Specifically, at the techniques of--and distances set--by local shore fishermen/women using gear they normally fished with, (not dedicated tourney equipment). i.e, 40, 60, and 80 lb. monofilament lines--along with the typical ulua rods of that time on which were mounted Penn Jigmaster, Senator 4/0, and Senator 6/0 sized reels.

If I recall correctly the Jigmaster bracket using 40lb. line produced a cast in the area of 170 yds. 80lb. line and 6/0 produced a cast of around 150 yd. Although the low-mount position was demonstrated, all of the casts mentioned were with those large boat/trolling reels mounted up high.  

Again in closing, I've no problem with you sharing your methods sliding bait from the beach. Indeed, that can spark someone's insight or aid another in learning. However, if you are going to be making recommendations--on reel positioning or anything else--please take the time to actually try the techniques and equipment you speak of, in a setting akin to the locale where they will be used by others.

[Jeri]

Hi

I was suggesting that it is better - without external influences or aids - like rocks, rod holders, cars, fighting chairs, etc. I am perhaps a little guided by our surf fishing regulations - the angler will have NO external aids, apart from a rod belt.

I wasn't suggesting that our events are distance casting or tournaments, but actual rock and surf fishing! I'm no distance caster, too old for such a strenuous game, but fishing I can still manage.

We are very driven and orientated in our surf fishing by the prevailing competition regulations down here, as the competition factor places a huge part in developing new systems, and new designs of equipment. It is an exceptionally strong aspect to nearly all surf fishing, and very tribal in nature as well.

Cheers from sunny Africa.

Jeri

[cbar45]

I have seen exceptions to the rod type, and setup for guys using kites, floats  (i.e. air filled trash bags), kayak, and drones to deploy their baits, when casting isn't the primary method used to deploy baits from shore.

The trash-bag/flagline method, (of floating a bait 300 yds. or so offshore), necessitates a hooked fish battle the drag of all that line--plus the float/s which are attached.

Fish caught via that method are usually tired out in short order, and very docile inshore and up to the gaff.
A fish hooked on the slide in contrast, can fight hard right up to the end. The trash-bag method also differs in that the short trolling rods, paired with 12/0 or 14/0 reels, allow one to simply winch in a fish after it has sufficiently tired.

Fishing in this manner is generally considered to be for sustenance, rather than sport.

[Makule]

Fishing in this manner is generally considered to be for sustenance, rather than sport.

That's why I do it.  I'm a food fisherman, not a sports fisherman.

[Makule]

Incidentally, I have tried the reel mounted low on the rod, and found it to be disadvantageous.

[ez2cdave]

I understand how some might find it advantageous to cast low-reel while fishing.

I've even built a pair of low-reel rods, (not ulua rods but light surf rods), for my own use, as I was curious and found I could appreciate their benefits.

But, can you explain why both high and low-reel styles are represented in the tournament casting circuit--where pure distance is all that matters?

Are there instances when it's practical to switch to a high-reel style and vice versa? Or should anglers the world over convert to low-reel for all their casting needs, since it works so well for some locales?

This thread was about choosing a blank to slide bait for ulua in Hawaii. It would make sense that such a blank and methods discussed be centered aound that pupose. I would hate for someone to fork over $450 for a custom low-mount slide bait rod--because they read on the internet it was a superior choice--then arrive in the islands and find their new setup is a misery to use on the high rocks.

Best of both worlds . . . Use two reel seats on the rod, one LOW for the cast, then switch the reel to the HIGH reel seat for fishing ! 

Thoughts ?

Tight Lines !

[ez2cdave]

In conclusion to the original posters requirements, I would suggest a Blue Marlin T/Flex 400/6  blank as first choice, with a Purglas 400/4 as second choice - in the scheme of the poll, they would be marked down as 'Other'.

Hmm . . . I have a Purglas 350/3 ( Excellent 4oz - 6oz Rod ) that I got off eBay, several years ago . . . Are there any dealers for Purglas ( Full line of Rods & Blanks ) in the USA ?

Tight Lines !

[Jeri]

Hi 'ez2cdave',

The Purglas company was sold by the original owner a couple of years ago to a company based near Johannesburg, and they have been trying to recapture their position in the local market, after spending too many years focussing on trying to develop overseas markets. So, I think that all the US contacts that were taking Purglas rods or blanks have fallen by the wayside, I might be wrong.

They are still struggling to develop surf blanks with the more modern carbon fibres, so their products are still very heavy by comparison to some of the other local manufacturers who have long since invested time and effort with modern fibres, and are even today moving forward with the more recent developed carbon fibres from Mitsibushi.

Some might say that they were a good blank 20 years ago, but to still have those same blanks as your top of range blanks today, seems a little 'hopeful' in a world where everyone else is amost continually developing improved products. A comparable blank to the Purglas 350/3 would be a Blue Marlin T/Flex /5, an awesome blank, but weighs 2/3rds the weight of the Purglas. More current blanks would be the Super Slim range, and they are just way beyond the very large bore Purglas, they would easily fit 'inside' the Purglas blank - they are that slim and powerful.

Cheers from sunny Africa,

Jeri

[ez2cdave]

Hi 'ez2cdave',

The Purglas company was sold by the original owner a couple of years ago to a company based near Johannesburg, and they have been trying to recapture their position in the local market, after spending too many years focussing on trying to develop overseas markets. So, I think that all the US contacts that were taking Purglas rods or blanks have fallen by the wayside, I might be wrong.

They are still struggling to develop surf blanks with the more modern carbon fibres, so their products are still very heavy by comparison to some of the other local manufacturers who have long since invested time and effort with modern fibres, and are even today moving forward with the more recent developed carbon fibres from Mitsibushi.

Some might say that they were a good blank 20 years ago, but to still have those same blanks as your top of range blanks today, seems a little 'hopeful' in a world where everyone else is amost continually developing improved products. A comparable blank to the Purglas 350/3 would be a Blue Marlin T/Flex /5, an awesome blank, but weighs 2/3rds the weight of the Purglas. More current blanks would be the Super Slim range, and they are just way beyond the very large bore Purglas, they would easily fit 'inside' the Purglas blank - they are that slim and powerful.

Cheers from sunny Africa,

Jeri

Jeri,

Thanks for the information and update about Purglas. I looked up Blue Marlin and the same problem seems to exist . . . No USA Dealers !

Most of their surf blanks seem to be 1-piece . . . Big transportation problem and huge shipping costs, too !

http://www.bluemarlinfishingrods.co.za/products/surf-blanks

Too bad the website doesn't list specifications . . .

Dave

[Bryan Young]

Looks like I missed a lot, and a lot to read.

[Jeri]

Hi Dave,

We deal a lot with Blue Marlin, unfortunately their range is very extensive, so putting up specs is a major task, as well as always changing. They do however do a lot of 2 piece and 3 piece blanks, basically versions of their 1 piece rods. The big thing down here is commercial integrity, as anyone doing a lot of research and development has to keep their product information quite limited, as there are long queues of people willing to just copy it. In the extreme, some folks even buy Blue Marlin products send it to China, and try to have the same product 'reverse engineered' to get a cheaper version - without the expense of doing the development work.

Blue Marlin have focussed their main efforts on the quite large local market, and to that end risen to the top of the game. Their products are very good, and we use a lot, as well as 'specials' which are made for us only. Their 3 piece 14' surf range is very popular with some of our clients in Australia, as they just can't seem to get anything near equivalent in performance for large fish and sharks from the surf. As you say there is an issue of the cost of freight, we tend to build orders that are based on 3 people sharing the cost, then it becomes more reasonable for the 5' long tube with 3 rods in it. We have also sent a few to main land US, but again an issue with freight expense.

The aspect for our local southern African fisheries and the designs of rods is somewhat different to other places in the world, where here we will get a whole range of almost identical looking blanks, all built on a single mandrel, but progressively with increasing numbers of wraps of carbon, so increasing in strength - hence the old 'stroke' numbers, were the ratings of strength, but Blue Malrin and Purglas never unified their numbering systems, so a lot of local confusion. Hence a Purglas /3 would be similar to a Blue Marlin /5. With Purglas pretty much dropping out of the picture, Blue Marlin have now adopted a more finite system of recommendations for sinker weight for each blank design.

To further add to the confusion, we now have blanks specifically designed and built for multipliers and a similar but structurally different design for fixed spools - but all equally rated for sinker sizing. This continual evolution of our blanks, along with changing fishing styles presents huge problems for the folks at Blue Marlin keeping their range updated and also their web site.

Hope that helps

Cheers from sunny Africa,

Jeri

[ez2cdave]

Hi Dave,

We deal a lot with Blue Marlin, unfortunately their range is very extensive, so putting up specs is a major task, as well as always changing. They do however do a lot of 2 piece and 3 piece blanks, basically versions of their 1 piece rods. The big thing down here is commercial integrity, as anyone doing a lot of research and development has to keep their product information quite limited, as there are long queues of people willing to just copy it. In the extreme, some folks even buy Blue Marlin products send it to China, and try to have the same product 'reverse engineered' to get a cheaper version - without the expense of doing the development work.

Blue Marlin have focussed their main efforts on the quite large local market, and to that end risen to the top of the game. Their products are very good, and we use a lot, as well as 'specials' which are made for us only. Their 3 piece 14' surf range is very popular with some of our clients in Australia, as they just can't seem to get anything near equivalent in performance for large fish and sharks from the surf. As you say there is an issue of the cost of freight, we tend to build orders that are based on 3 people sharing the cost, then it becomes more reasonable for the 5' long tube with 3 rods in it. We have also sent a few to main land US, but again an issue with freight expense.

The aspect for our local southern African fisheries and the designs of rods is somewhat different to other places in the world, where here we will get a whole range of almost identical looking blanks, all built on a single mandrel, but progressively with increasing numbers of wraps of carbon, so increasing in strength - hence the old 'stroke' numbers, were the ratings of strength, but Blue Malrin and Purglas never unified their numbering systems, so a lot of local confusion. Hence a Purglas /3 would be similar to a Blue Marlin /5. With Purglas pretty much dropping out of the picture, Blue Marlin have now adopted a more finite system of recommendations for sinker weight for each blank design.

To further add to the confusion, we now have blanks specifically designed and built for multipliers and a similar but structurally different design for fixed spools - but all equally rated for sinker sizing. This continual evolution of our blanks, along with changing fishing styles presents huge problems for the folks at Blue Marlin keeping their range updated and also their web site.

Hope that helps

Cheers from sunny Africa,

Jeri

Jeri,

Isn't it very difficult to choose the right rod blank from Blue Marlin, if they don't give the specifications for it ?  Line weight range . . . Casting weight range . . . Action ( Slow, Moderate, Fast, etc ), Power ( L, M, MH, H, XH, etc ) . . . Blank Weight . . . Butt Diameter & Tip Size, too !

Purglas did supply some "numbers" for their blanks & rods, including PRICES, which Blue Marlin does not . . . ( PURGLAS PDF's velow )

[Jeri]

Hi Dave,

They have over 250 different blanks in their current catalogue, that doesn't include specials or models that are older than 5 years. They don't deal direct with the public, and rely on their dealers to know the blank performances and specs. I do deal in their blanks, as we use a variety in our custom rod building, and pretty much know all the sizes and specs most folks might wish to know, and example might be the Super Slim 3 piece, 6-7oz, is available in 3 different lengths (4.00, 4.20 & 4.30 metres long), it has a casting weight recommendation of 6 or 7oz plus moderate baits, and has a butt diameter of 23.2mm, and a tip of 4.3mm diameter for the fixed spool version, and 3.6mm for the multiplier version, weighs about 450 grams.

They don't specify line weights, as that is a very confusing constrain in surf fishing, as the majority of the time folks would b e using a casting leader to prevent 'crack-offs' by the sinker during casting, and then the main line strength or diameter becomes 'mute'. Add to that some of the rods/blanks are also used with braided lines, then line diameter becomes a seriously un-important issue, except perhaps to the caster - use a too thick a line, and obviously distance will suffer, while too thin a line and the oceanic or sea conditions will be too strong for that line.

I personally, use one of the 1 piece derivations of the same blank for the majority of my competition surf angling, and will change spools on my reels for different conditions and requirements, 25lb braid when absolute distance is paramount, then 30lb braid for normal conditons, and when larger sharks might be in the area, I'll up to 40lb braid, some will use 50lb braid - it is all dependant on the conditions prevailing.

Power is pretty much determined by the casting weight these days, though unlike US blanks the action is more tip orientated, than 'through'; this is very much what the local conditions in southern Africa require.

As said, they don't really look to cater for foriegn markets, so their reliance on local dealers to cater for local anglers is their route. Price lists are very much company/dealer orientated, and not generally available to the public. Price setting in southern African countries is not an acceptable practice.

We have had many conversations on this very topic on how to better transfer the quite technical information about a blank performance to the general public, and never really come up with a satisfactory solution - we even went down the route of exploring 'test curves' to try and give an indication of power potential, but that proved too confusing. The problems of technical specifications become even more complex, when you start to add in the various strength of carbon fibre cloths used, and even more so, when a variety (2 or more) of different strength carbon cloths are used in the same blank, and what proportions of each. Add to that the variables in action  and possibly power with single strength carbon cloth blanks, and the whole story starts to get seriously confusing for the average angler.

Ultimately, it is a little like all the various 'Tournament Trolling' blanks that are available from all the different US companies, and whether they are 'East Coast' or 'West Coast' rated. There are huige variations in final performance within just that limited variety of blanks. Then add the options of Fenwick, Sabre, Calstar or others, and the options of different glass construction or glass + carbon or full carbon. The variety is endless, and you then need to take wisdom from the dealers as to exactly which will be best suited for your intended purpose.

Confused??? - I am|!!

Cheers from sunny Africa.

jeri

[Gfish]

So, after all that information and the deluge of "I'm right, you're not" ego, is the voting still goin on and/or is there a winner?
Gfish

[ez2cdave]

They don't deal direct with the public, and rely on their dealers to know the blank performances and specs. I do deal in their blanks, as we use a variety in our custom rod building, and pretty much know all the sizes and specs most folks might wish to know . . .

jeri

Jeri,

How do the Dealers know the performance and specs ?

Does Blue Marlin provide them with specific information ?

As you said, they have over 250 different blanks . . . Playing a "guessing game" is never a good thing, especially with expensive items from halfway around the world !

Tight Lines !