Saros 4000F Making noise

[betterlate]

I have a Shimano Saros 4000F that, despite a recent tear-down, clean and lube (that I paid too much money for), makes noise just holding in my hand & letting it spin. The reel is about 10 years old now.

Checked the bearing on the bail arm (10424) and the noise isn't coming from there. The noise seemed to derive from the base of the rotor (11800), almost as if there is rubbing in there - so I removed the rotor. The friction ring may be distorted ? I don't know how it should be, though I expected it to be locked down & not loose like that. The underside of the rotor looks clean, with no evidence of rubbing. Also, the reel still makes noise but it sounds like it's coming from the bearing 10397, located in the inside/under the roller clutch assembly. Picture (should/might) be attached.

Any suggestions? This reel, like my Symtre 4000FJ and Spheros FA4000 originally, did not make this noise when new. It is very distracting working artificial baits and the noise is just unacceptable.

Thanks.

[alantani]

gotta be either bearings or gears.  if all the bearings are good, then check the gears for any damage at all.  even a little damage to the gears can echo throughout the entire reel.  also, make sure you do not crank the reel with the rotor off.  the pinion gear needs to be locked in place by the rotor.  if it moves around, it will be damaged when you crank. 

[johndtuttle]

Has the Roller Clutch assembly been flushed? A possible source. It can be soaked in white vinegar or other plastic safe solvent and then blown dry to remove small stuff, if it has to be opened the rebuild is a post by mattK titled "Roller clutch on Sedona".

You have gotten remarkable life out of such relatively inexpensive reels and it should not be surprising that a bearing may be ready for replacement. You can try spinning it in your hand to see if ie the Pinion Bearing is rough, but unfortunately it sometimes can be a replace them as you go trial to troubleshoot which one is the trouble among them all.

Shimano likely has no parts for them, but they should be able to put you in touch with one of their regional centers that may have parts. If not, you can measure them and get bearings from Boca.

[betterlate]

I almost pulled the trigger on a Stradic last weekend, and I guess I'm glad I didn't. Does Shimano not support their products for very long? 

I have 2 Ambassaduer 5500C's, the newest of which is 20 years old, the other 25 years old. I don't seem to have any problem getting parts for them.

Is there a brand of spinning reel you can recommend that I can use & take care of for a long period of time? I can't keep buying reels each year or 2, you run out of money at some point. 

[johndtuttle]

I almost pulled the trigger on a Stradic last weekend, and I guess I'm glad I didn't. Does Shimano not support their products for very long? 

I have 2 Ambassaduer 5500C's, the newest of which is 20 years old, the other 25 years old. I don't seem to have any problem getting parts for them.

Is there a brand of spinning reel you can recommend that I can use & take care of for a long period of time? I can't keep buying reels each year or 2, you run out of money at some point. 

There is perhaps only one reel actively made that will last for decades of normal use AND have parts support for decades and that is a Penn 704/706Z.

This is for several reasons. One, the reel makes very modest drag numbers so it cannot "hurt itself" as the engineering margin for safety is greatly in excess of the 12-15lbs of drag it produces.

Combine that with a stainless pinion and marine bronze main gear, a line roller that is indestructible and simple mechanical dog.

It was not designed for braid but people do have good luck with Berkeley Fireline as it is a little stiffer. A reel from a bye gone era when people wanted a quality tool, not oOOOooo shiny and smooth that lasts a few years and is junk.

After that, it is $700-1200 for something really built, but you never know when someone is going to "upgrade" a reel and parts support will wither. Penn Torque is as tough as anything made, but is a relatively new introduction (3 years into it at this time).

Shimano only guarantees parts support for 5 years after a new model comes out.

Everything else, and I mean everything else is a disposable reel made to a price and expected that the consumer will want the latest cool racehorse with pot metal internals before it really begins to hurt their bottom line.

[betterlate]

I guess I have only one thing left to say to Shimano - bye! 

[Zimbass]

I almost pulled the trigger on a Stradic last weekend, and I guess I'm glad I didn't. Does Shimano not support their products for very long? 

I have 2 Ambassaduer 5500C's, the newest of which is 20 years old, the other 25 years old. I don't seem to have any problem getting parts for them.

Is there a brand of spinning reel you can recommend that I can use & take care of for a long period of time? I can't keep buying reels each year or 2, you run out of money at some point. 

There is perhaps only one reel actively made that will last for decades of normal use AND have parts support for decades and that is a Penn 704/706Z.

This is for several reasons. One, the reel makes very modest drag numbers so it cannot "hurt itself" as the engineering margin for safety is greatly in excess of the 12-15lbs of drag it produces.

Combine that with a stainless pinion and marine bronze main gear, a line roller that is indestructible and simple mechanical dog.

It was not designed for braid but people do have good luck with Berkeley Fireline as it is a little stiffer. A reel from a bye gone era when people wanted a quality tool, not oOOOooo shiny and smooth that lasts a few years and is junk.

After that, it is $700-1200 for something really built, but you never know when someone is going to "upgrade" a reel and parts support will wither. Penn Torque is as tough as anything made, but is a relatively new introduction (3 years into it at this time).

Shimano only guarantees parts support for 5 years after a new model comes out.

Everything else, and I mean everything else is a disposable reel made to a price and expected that the consumer will want the latest cool racehorse with pot metal internals before it really begins to hurt their bottom line.

This is your opinion and I respect that. However, Shimano does not make disposable reels. I have many reels that are over 20 years old. I am still able to obtain spares for them from Shimano accredited agents. Yes Shimano does not stock all the spares themselves, but they do sell these of to agents, and they carry them for many years later.

Shimano makes a great product, and they are certainly not disposable 

[handi2]

I work on many Shimano spinners everyday. I have changed every bearing in some of the lower tier Shimano spinning reels and they still make some noise. It's the locomotive style gearing system and with yours being that old I'm sure that's what it is.

It will still work great and last longer.

The pinion bearing is 7x14x5. The other bearings are 7x11x3 and 7x11x4

[betterlate]

Thanks, once I figure where to order them then I'll change them out. This is the most expensive reel I ever purchased and I hate to think I can't repair it and get more life out of the thing.

I notice the shaft 11797 has almost 1/8" of play in & out. Also, that friction ring is not laying down. Any thoughts or suggestions there would be most welcome.

[johndtuttle]

I almost pulled the trigger on a Stradic last weekend, and I guess I'm glad I didn't. Does Shimano not support their products for very long? 

I have 2 Ambassaduer 5500C's, the newest of which is 20 years old, the other 25 years old. I don't seem to have any problem getting parts for them.

Is there a brand of spinning reel you can recommend that I can use & take care of for a long period of time? I can't keep buying reels each year or 2, you run out of money at some point. 

There is perhaps only one reel actively made that will last for decades of normal use AND have parts support for decades and that is a Penn 704/706Z.

This is for several reasons. One, the reel makes very modest drag numbers so it cannot "hurt itself" as the engineering margin for safety is greatly in excess of the 12-15lbs of drag it produces.

Combine that with a stainless pinion and marine bronze main gear, a line roller that is indestructible and simple mechanical dog.

It was not designed for braid but people do have good luck with Berkeley Fireline as it is a little stiffer. A reel from a bye gone era when people wanted a quality tool, not oOOOooo shiny and smooth that lasts a few years and is junk.

After that, it is $700-1200 for something really built, but you never know when someone is going to "upgrade" a reel and parts support will wither. Penn Torque is as tough as anything made, but is a relatively new introduction (3 years into it at this time).

Shimano only guarantees parts support for 5 years after a new model comes out.

Everything else, and I mean everything else is a disposable reel made to a price and expected that the consumer will want the latest cool racehorse with pot metal internals before it really begins to hurt their bottom line.

This is your opinion and I respect that. However, Shimano does not make disposable reels. I have many reels that are over 20 years old. I am still able to obtain spares for them from Shimano accredited agents. Yes Shimano does not stock all the spares themselves, but they do sell these of to agents, and they carry them for many years later.

Shimano makes a great product, and they are certainly not disposable 

Oh, hey Zimbass, In fact you would get complete agreement on my part when it comes to the reels from Shimano made 20 years ago. They were amazingly tough reels.

I think you will find my current view quite well founded in my own experience with nearly every current Saltwater model Shimano currently produces.

The last remaining good reels, imho, are the Tiagra and the Torsa. Stella is excellent for a time. What I would suggest is fielding questions from current Stella FA owners who cannot find parts etc.

Shimano makes a very different product than they did when they were establishing themselves. Now, it is nearly all planned obsolescence in my current observation of my own experience replacing gears in $1000 reels after barely a season and the opinions shared by those using their product hard.

Hopefully you have a good source for the OP to find a replacement friction ring for his Saros, any ideas?

[johndtuttle]

Thanks, once I figure where to order them then I'll change them out. This is the most expensive reel I ever purchased and I hate to think I can't repair it and get more life out of the thing.

I notice the shaft 11797 has almost 1/8" of play in & out. Also, that friction ring is not laying down. Any thoughts or suggestions there would be most welcome.

Unfortunately the rings are prone to swelling, sometimes from contact with oil etc. As far as I know once they are out of shape they are done. You can try posting in the reel repair forum at 2coolfishing.com as Dan Thornburn a Shimano rep posts there. He may be able to help you find one or have a solution.

[Zimbass]

Thanks, once I figure where to order them then I'll change them out. This is the most expensive reel I ever purchased and I hate to think I can't repair it and get more life out of the thing.

I notice the shaft 11797 has almost 1/8" of play in & out. Also, that friction ring is not laying down. Any thoughts or suggestions there would be most welcome.

Unfortunately the rings are prone to swelling, sometimes from contact with oil etc. As far as I know once they are out of shape they are done. You can try posting in the reel repaid forum at 2coolfishing.com as Dan Thornburn a Shimano rep posts there. He may be able to help you find one or have a solution.

That is what I would also recommend. Dan is a straight up guy and very helpful. Alan has comms with him too.

Dads Ole Tackle,   http://store.dadsoletackle.com/  and South Western Parts,  http://southwesternparts.com/    are a good source for my needs, give them a try.

[betterlate]

I have one hiccup trying to get this real stripped down, the handle 11911 is stuck on the drive gear 11803. Any suggestions on how to get apart? I am afraid I'm going to break something and I cannot recall whether to turn clockwise or counter-clockwise.  

Also, on ordering bearings - should I go sealed or open?

[betterlate]

I found this on another thread and I wonder if it's okay to soak my reel handle in the same: break-free or pb blaster etc.....Kroil.. ?

Thanks, I am afraid of dissolving the plastic side cover.

[johndtuttle]

I have one hiccup trying to get this real stripped down, the handle 11911 is stuck on the drive gear 11803. Any suggestions on how to get apart? I am afraid I'm going to break something and I cannot recall whether to turn clockwise or counter-clockwise.  

Also, on ordering bearings - should I go sealed or open?

It comes off the opposite way of reeling. best way to describe it. Hold the rotor and reel backwards. For a small spinner like this go open bearings lubed with oil. as far as the gunk to use to help get the handle off, you simply have to use something you know is plastic safe, I am unfamiliar with that product.