OCEAN CITY and Other OLD REELS ...

Started by ez2cdave, February 10, 2015, 12:30:22 AM

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Alto Mare

Looking good John, you're achieving a lot in such a short time. You keep this up and I might need to get on a plane and build you an extra room ;).
Very nice collection.

Sal
Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.

Penn Chronology

Nice deal on the Dover Club. They are kind of scarce.


QuoteMostly interested in the early Long Beach model progression (which you diverged from a bit in your Reel News articles), and more info regarding the early Joe Coxe/OC connection, and Coxe reel evolution from the same time period.  Also interested in learning more regarding the early Pflueger Atlapacs, and similar models and any connections between Pflueger and their competitors that may have existed during this timeframe.  I can wait for the OC book though, and do some additional research myself on the other topics.

The early Long Beach models could be a book in themselves. I did the one article on the Long Beach; but, there is so much to look at if you want to get deep into the model and its relatives. Basically, the origin of the Long Beach is Penn!

If you are finding any documentation about a connection between Joe Coxe and Ocean City or Moskowitiz & Herbach, you will be holding info that many collectors have questioned for years. The physical build style of the Ocean City Orlando model is obviously a Joe Coxe style. Joe Coxe was not the kind of person that donated his designs without recognition, so I have to assume, Ocean City borrowed the style from his designs, without permission. Possibly the best way to find information about a Joe Coxe / Ocean City connection would be in the history of the courts. I always felt that Ocean City may have infringed somewhat on the Joe Coxe patents.

Pflueger is a brand I steer clear of. They are extremely complicated in there history. They are also very old, going back into the 19th Century (so is Ocean City; but, not usually thought of as that old). Most collectors feel that if Pflueger felt your company was getting successful and grabbing a piece of the tackle market, they would find a reason to bring up a Patent Infringement case against you. They were tough. The Atlapac reels are fine reels. I think they are more attractive on the inside than the outside. Really little works of art, especially when you consider they are production reels. 

Glad to see you are getting deep. That is what I feel draws you into the hobby. It is so much more than simply filling your shelves with reels!

Tightlines667

#62
I have recently aquired a few more early Ocean City Reels....







All are 6/0 reels...

From left to right...

-Orlando, Ca. 1930

this is not the early/first year (1929) reel, and does not appear to have been plated (1931-34)
It was the first 'Big Game' reel offered by OC, and very similar to the Joe Coxe (L.A.Coxe).



-Long Key 110 (450yd), Ca.1931
This is the first year, German silver model


Long Key 116? (500yd), ca. 1932-?

This is the middle aged production model that was plated, but had the early handle


Long Key 110 (450yd) ca. 1932-?

This is a later, but not last, iteration of this model, and had the new handle, with integral wrench, and newer (but not latest) freespool mechanism.

Hopefully Mike or someone can fill in some of the gaps in my knowledge on the Long Key model development.

John

Hope springs eternal
for the consumate fishermen.

Tightlines667

#63
I also have 2 early Balboa Reels...















The unboxed reel is a Panama, 10/0 (later referred to as the no.120), Ca. 1937

It appears to be a first year model, with an early log Penn Log Knob handle.  It has the old style star, drag, rotating harness lugs, and drag.  This reel is rated to hold 600yds of no.24 thread (75lb test).

The boxed reel is a Panama, 12/0 (no.121), ca. Early 1937

This appears to be a transition reel since it has some characteristics depicted in the 1937 catalog  (rotating harness lugs, star style, drag, oiler, handle arm), but it is badged (which did not appear until the 1938 catalog).  Curiously the reel is lacking all of the other features depicted in the 1938 catalog.  The handle knob has been replaced, and appears to have origionally belonged to a Coxe.  This reel is rated to hold 750 yds of no. 24 thread  (75lb test).

Maybe Mike can confirm that this is indeed a transition reel?

John


Hope springs eternal
for the consumate fishermen.

Penn Chronology

Very interesting group of old OC Big Game models. My favorite is the Orlando, the history on that particular is all subjective; but, that Joe Cox influence is definitely there. Great Bunch of reels.

George4741

#65
I've never had an Ocean City reel, so, when I found these two examples, I had to have them.  They are both identical in size to a Penn Long Beach 60.  They are also trade reels with the New York Hardware Trading Co logo.  

The first one has three pillars and a star drag.  The reel foot is marked:  
                                             BLACK DIAMOND JUNIOR                                                       
                                                        250 YDS           
                                   NEW YORK HARDWARE TRADING CO
                                          LOS ANGELES - PASADENA



It has the diamond inlay of the NYHTC on the tail plate:


It is interesting to see how it differs internally from a Penn.  For those who aren't familiar with OC reels, on this model the main gear moves vertically to disengage from the pinion, unlike a Penn where the pinion moves horizontally to disengage from the spool.  Also, the drag stack is a 2+1 configuration but seems to function as a 1+1.  I suppose this is adequate on a LB 60 size reel.  One other thing, the dog spring has a 90 degree twist on the end and doesn't effectively make contact with the dog, rendering it useless.  Or, is the dog spring correct and am I assembling it wrong?


The other reel doesn't have a star drag and reminds me of an old Penn 80 Conventional in size and function.
The reel foot is marked:  
                                              BLACK DIAMOND SPECIAL
                                                         250 YDS
                                      NEW YORK HARDWARE TRADING CO
                                             LOS ANGELES - PASADENA



It also has the NYHTC diamond logo on the tail plate:


Michael, I think it strongly resembles your photo and description of the Seal Beach 136.
Quote from: Penn Chronology on June 17, 2015, 01:14:06 AM

My fourth search is now a bit deeper. I am looking for a reasonable facsimile to the "All Coast". By the time I get to the 1938 I find it, a dead ringer for the "All Coast" reel. Only it is named the "Seal Beach"

So's I post my info on Facebook and continue on with my day.

This is an example of how to loose your mind for awhile and it is also a neat learning experience. I knew that Ocean City sold their reels with Trade Accounts just like Penn did; but, I did not expect it. One never knows what he will get himself into when he just want to do a simple little favor for a stranger. ???
viurem lliures o morirem

Alto Mare

Cool reels Geaorge! is the diamond inlay or paited on?
nice to see you back on here pal.
Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.

Penn Chronology

#67
George,

You are correct about the Seal Beach model. The other reel is a early, circa 1931 Bay City model.


Internally should be relatively simple. I would think the anti-reverse dog spring is a simple bent left spring, unless your reel is a left hand model, the spring gets weird.


George4741

#68
Sal, thanks for welcoming me back.  I disappeared for about nine months, although I occasionally dropped in to see what you guys are up to.  The diamond is an inlay.  On the first reel it appears to be copper or brass.  I'm not sure of the material on the second reel.
George
viurem lliures o morirem

George4741

Quote from: Penn Chronology on July 12, 2016, 07:15:18 AM
George,

You are correct about the Seal Beach model. The other reel is a early, circa 1931 Bay City model.

Internally should be relatively simple. I would thin the anti-reverse dog spring is a simple bent left spring, unless your reel is a left hand model, the spring gets weird.
I only have a assembled bridge picture of the insides of the 1931 model.



I expect this is the bridge in your reel. It is a pivoting bridge, which moves the main gear away from the pinion. I would think the anti-reverse dog travels with the bridge; but, I could be wrong. It has been a long time since I was inside one of these. It looks to me that the dog spring on your reel is straightened out, cannot really tell though, On a right hand drive reel the dog should be riding on the upper portion of the dog gear. If the reel is left hand drive, the dog is sprung up into the dog gear from the bottom of the gear. Weird ::) Depending on how the reel is driven will also dictate how the dog spring is shaped. Hope this helps, rather than confuses things..............<:O(

Michael, you're photo is identical to my bridge.  I will straighten the dog spring, reinstall it, and see how it works.
Thanks for the info,
George
viurem lliures o morirem

George4741


I just finished cleaning up the Seal Beach and took a photo of the tail plates of both reels.  Notice the placement of the diamond inlays. 


Here is a photo of one of Michael's (aka Penn Chronology) reels.  I borrowed this photo from one of his posts on "Show off Your Long Beach". 


I'm surprised that the diamond inlays aren't placed in a standardized position.  They're all over the place. ???
viurem lliures o morirem

Penn Chronology

#71
These are great Trade Reels. Production Number are impossible; but, you really do not see too many of these around today.

I have a 1934 Penn Bridge City with the Diamond logo on the tail plate. New York Hardware Trading Company was not an Ocean City Exclusive. :)





I do not think the markings are inlaid. My Penn Bridge City looks like a paint stamp marking. It is a very durable mark. They do not come off...


Wish this one was mine. It is out there somewhere!

George4741


Mike, as you know, your third photo in the previous post is the head plate view of the OC reel shown below.  I assumed that it was your reel.  I stand corrected.
Quote from: George4741 on July 12, 2016, 08:22:03 AM


After careful examination, I'm sure the diamond on my Bay City is an inlay.  I'm not so sure of the diamond on the Seal Beach.
viurem lliures o morirem

Penn Chronology

QuoteAfter careful examination, I'm sure the diamond on my Bay City is an inlay.  I'm not so sure of the diamond on the Seal Beach

The Bay City is an older reel than the Seal Beach or my Penn Bridge City for that matter. Being that it is older may explain why its diamond is inlaid. Also the Bay City is a more expensive reel than the Seal Beach or Penn Bridge City. I have never seen one that was a real inlay. I have owned a couple of these. Sold them all except the Bridge City, all of mine were not inlaid, although you have to look close. It is not easy to tell the difference.

Tightlines667

Well that was exciting...

http://m.ebay.com/itm/282099177998

Guess I will have to wait a little longer for the missing piece of my OC Long Key grouping... went for a little more then I have budgeted for this one :)
Hope springs eternal
for the consumate fishermen.