Isla / Catalina Help!!

[Reverendpdp]

Hello fellow anglers.
I'm a newbie to reel repair and feel that I'm a little over my head with my new Catalina 5000H.  I heard the reel will perform better with carbon washers, so I went ahead and purchased the 5 washer set, along with some Cal's Grease.  When I get to the stock washers, I'm noticing two things.  First the stock washers look to carbon fiber as well.  Now they're not as coarse, but they look to be a finer grade of carbon.  So I'm wondering if this is something new?  Secondly I'm only seeing three carbon washers, while the new kit has 5.  Am I just replacing the 3, or am I adding all 5?  If so where do the other 2 go?  
Lastly, this is not related to the reel per se, but why is it that one reel manufacturer tells you DO NOT get grease on the washers (i.e. Avet), while others tell you to cover the whole surface in grease?

[foakes]

If you bought the 5 drag set from Bryan, Alan, Dawn at Smooth Deag, or Scott's --

The height of the CFs and the SS washers in a 5 stack -- will be the same as a 3 stack.

The washers are thinner -- allowing the extra surface area for more drag.

Different companies have different opinions on greased drags or not.

However, thanks to Alan and others -- many more manufacturers are coming around to greased CF's.

If you want more drag, smoother drag through all ranges, life-long lasting drags, and salt water resistant -- go with a 5 stack and Cal's grease.

Sounds like you already have what you need.

Welcome!

Best,

Fred

[Porthos]

I'm assuming that when you said "...the 5 washer set..." it's 5 CF washers that you bought and NOT 5 CF washers AND corresponding metal washers.

According to Alan Hawk's post:
http://www.alanhawk.com/reviews/cat11.html

...the Catalina 2011 had CF washers. Though current Daiwa North America doesn't say "carbon fiber" anywhere on http://www.daiwa.com/us/contents/reels/isla_saltwater/index.html, I'd suspect that they are CF. Compare your factory washers to the ones shown in Alan Hawk's 8th photo--if similar in appearance and if they are already greased then you are good. If the three original washers are dry, grease the entire drag stack, and install. If non-CF washers, swap them out for the CF.

Stack the three factory non-CF washers and compare its height to the stack height of three of the 5 new washers. If the same, then three of the new CF washers are all you need; otherwise you may need to double up somewhere with the new ones to match. Clean the metal washers of the factory grease, lube up the entire drag stack with Cal's, and install.

Don't get Alan T. started about Avet and greased drag washers...

[Reverendpdp]

I'm assuming that when you said "...the 5 washer set..." it's 5 CF washers that you bought and NOT 5 CF washers AND corresponding metal washers.

According to Alan Hawk's post:
http://www.alanhawk.com/reviews/cat11.html

...the Catalina 2011 had CF washers. Though current Daiwa North America doesn't say "carbon fiber" anywhere on http://www.daiwa.com/us/contents/reels/isla_saltwater/index.html, I'd suspect that they are CF. Compare your factory washers to the ones shown in Alan Hawk's 8th photo--if similar in appearance and if they are already greased then you are good. If the three original washers are dry, grease the entire drag stack, and install. If non-CF washers, swap them out for the CF.

Stack the three factory non-CF washers and compare its height to the stack height of three of the 5 new washers. If the same, then three of the new CF washers are all you need; otherwise you may need to double up somewhere with the new ones to match. Clean the metal washers of the factory grease, lube up the entire drag stack with Cal's, and install.

Don't get Alan T. started about Avet and greased drag washers...

Alright those pics helped except that I only saw 3 washers on my reel and the pic showed 5.  I'm going to tear it down again to make sure I didn't miss any...

[Reverendpdp]

If you bought the 5 drag set from Bryan, Alan, Dawn at Smooth Deag, or Scott's --

The height of the CFs and the SS washers in a 5 stack -- will be the same as a 3 stack.

The washers are thinner -- allowing the extra surface area for more drag.

Different companies have different opinions on greased drags or not.

However, thanks to Alan and others -- many more manufacturers are coming around to greased CF's.

If you want more drag, smoother drag through all ranges, life-long lasting drags, and salt water resistant -- go with a 5 stack and Cal's grease.

Sounds like you already have what you need.

Welcome!

Best,

Fred

Thanks Fred.  I may not have the right washers.  The ones I have are much coarser and thicker.  I may have to return them and get a set from one of the folks you mentioned...

[Porthos]

Alright those pics helped except that I only saw 3 washers on my reel and the pic showed 5.  I'm going to tear it down again to make sure I didn't miss any...

I pointed you to those pics ONLY as a comparison of the material/texture of the washers, which are CF, for the 2011 model. Daiwa may have changed the design since 2011 from five to three washers for the 2016 model..

[Dr. Jekyll - AKA MeL B]

maybe this 2 schematics that shows 3 drag washers can help;

catalina 5000H  

http://daiwafishing.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/12-CATALINA-5000H.pdf

isla 5000H

http://www.daiwaweb.com/us/service/manuals/image/spinning/ISLA5000H.pdf.

tight lines!

PS I think Daiwa's Ultimate Tournament Carbon Drag AKA UTD is their carbon fiber system but don't quote me on this.

[Wolli]

Never had in hands a Catalina 5000H with 5 drag washers.

3 washers with dimensions 15x26x0.8mm each are correct.

5 washers with same dimensions have some Saltigas like Z6000, Z6500 or Z6500HDF

[Reverendpdp]

Ok those schematics help quite a bit.  Thanks. 
The issue now is whether it is necessary to swap out the washers being that they already CF?  I thought they were oiled-felt.  I suppose I could clean them and apply some of Cal's grease? 

[Porthos]

Ok those schematics help quite a bit.  Thanks.  
The issue now is whether it is necessary to swap out the washers being that they already CF?  I thought they were oiled-felt.  I suppose I could clean them and apply some of Cal's grease?  

If you have a spring scale, try this with the reel on the rod with the factory washers and grease:

• run the line around line roller as you normally would if setting up
• instead of feeding the line through the guides, tie a loop
• set your drag
• retrieve line until knot of loop is above the roller
  
• put loop on spring scale hook
• do a strong steady pull on line out in same direction as if it was going out the guides
• note smoothness and max drag measured on scale
• retrieve line back to above roller and repeat pull with same consistency

If each time, the pull feels the same (smooth with NO stickiness) and the readiing on the scale is consistent, then you are good--don't fix what's not broken.

If not, then clean factory grease off the entire drag stack and spool, and replace with Cal's.

[Reverendpdp]

Great advice.  Thank you very much...