US113/113N Baja Special R&D

[TomT]

Reply to "J" and Keta.

About 4-5 years ago I purchased 4 Baja Specials 113hn from a seller on ebay who had 6 of them for sale.  I went thru all 4 of these and gave 3 to my kids--who are over 50 years old--and kept 1 for myself.  I personally serviced all of these(using Alan's tutorial) and found nothing wrong with them. I had trouble with everyone of them getting them back together properly--because of the dogs and spring configurations.  I am probably the only one of the family who uses this reel regularly or at least semi-regularly--as it is in Baja and that is where I use it, but is NOT where I live.  Normally, I spend at least 3-4 months a year in Baja and try to fish as often as possible.  The only upgrade I have made to this reel is to install one of Alan's 5/0 knobs on it.  It has never failed me and I have caught many YFT to 40-50 lbs, 1 marlin(100lbs), 1 wahoo--about 60lbs and an Amberjack--about 50#'s.  I have also caught countless dorado and other Baja fish (such as Sierra's and Cabrilla).  I have never had a problem with the reel, much less a failure. 

If either of you feel that you can solve this Baja Special problem by having one of these reels as a model, I will send you one of them to tear apart and study and try to find a solution to this dog(or any other) problem.  All I would ask is to receive the reel back in the same condition or better (if upgrades are possible).  Again to my knowledge--THEIR IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THESE REELS RIGHT NOW.  I would just like to help find a solution to this problem and I guarantee you I do NOT have this knowledge to even understand everything you guys are saying.  I just trust you both to have above-average technical knowledge of reels and eventually get back to me with a reel improved with your modifications or at least in the same condition that is in now.---Just to be clear, I can probably send each of you a reel that has probably not been used since I serviced it 2-3 yrs ago.

[TomT]

Reply to "J" and Keta.

About 4-5 years ago I purchased 4 Baja Specials 113hn from a seller on ebay who had 6 of them for sale.  I went thru all 4 of these and gave 3 to my kids--who are over 50 years old--and kept 1 for myself.  I personally serviced all of these(using Alan's tutorial) and found nothing wrong with them. I had trouble with everyone of them getting them back together properly--because of the dogs and spring configurations.  I am probably the only one of the family who uses this reel regularly or at least semi-regularly--as it is in Baja and that is where I use it, but is NOT where I live.  Normally, I spend at least 3-4 months a year in Baja and try to fish as often as possible.  The only upgrade I have made to this reel is to install one of Alan's 5/0 knobs on it.  It has never failed me and I have caught many YFT to 40-50 lbs, 1 marlin(100lbs), 1 wahoo--about 60lbs and an Amberjack--about 50#'s.  I have also caught countless dorado and other Baja fish (such as Sierra's and Cabrilla).  I have never had a problem with the reel, much less a failure. 

If either of you feel that you can solve this Baja Special problem by having one of these reels as a model, I will send you one of them to tear apart and study and try to find a solution to this dog(or any other) problem.  All I would ask is to receive the reel back in the same condition or better (if upgrades are possible).  Again to my knowledge--THEIR IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THESE REELS RIGHT NOW.  I would just like to help find a solution to this problem and I guarantee you I do NOT have this knowledge to even understand everything you guys are saying.  I just trust you both to have above-average technical knowledge of reels and eventually get back to me with a reel improved with your modifications or at least in the same condition that is in now.---Just to be clear, I can send each of you a reel that has probably not been used since I serviced it 2-3 yrs ago.  Let me know if either of you is interested and an address to send the reel to.
TomT

[Keta]

Thanks for the offer Tom, I have one on the way now.  I'm glad to hear your reels are working well.

[TomT]

Lee,
Well really only 1 out of the 4 gets used at least very much.  I don't know anything about the original owner or my reels but I assume anyone with 6 of them for sale is because of commercial use.  I have never used mine for anything but live-bait slow trolling in Baja waters.  I have not had an issue with my reel with these conditions and decent fish.  I don't want to come on as an expert on these reels--I just have had positive experiences and probably only purchased them after Alan's positive review. I will still offer one my reels (which hasn't been used since last service) to someone who is trying to solve this problem and needs a reel for measurements, etc
TomT

[jurelometer]

Hi Tom,

What # drag setting are you using?   It seems the folks that run high drag settings are more likely to hit this problem. If you are not getting any dog scarring, then it may not be worth it for you to be one of the first to try the fix. 

To properly lab test a fix, I  would have to push the original  design to failure, and then attempt to significantly surpass the original load with the fix.  And then be able to reproduce the results.  This means trashing several parts. So you don't want to send me your reel


There was a thread not too long ago on bench testing and measuring AR load, if anyone is interested on quantifying the improvements with Lee's prototypes.

-J

[Alto Mare]

Nice for Tom to volunteer, but you make a good point Dave. Can't compare reels if they're not fished the same,the reel should only be tested by members that had issues.

Sal

[TomT]

Thanks to Sal and Dave fro their replies..I did not think that the reels would have to be tested to these extremes.  I thought you needed a reel for measurements and to construct a new dog system.  To answer your question on the drag I use, I don't really measure it.  When I went thru these reels I did a similar test that Sal uses and used a fish scale to measure drags.  I got a maximum drag from 4 of these reels of 20-22 lbs.  But I had to get that measurement by backing up with the reel as I did not have the strength to turn the handle at drags above 12-15 lbs.   So when I am setting the drag, I probably am not over 8#'s of drag--but that is not measured--just guestimated.  Still did not have problems with any of the aforementioned fish.  Good Luck with your quest for improving these reels.
TomT

[jurelometer]

Thanks to Sal and Dave fro their replies..I did not think that the reels would have to be tested to these extremes.  I thought you needed a reel for measurements and to construct a new dog system.  To answer your question on the drag I use, I don't really measure it.  When I went thru these reels I did a similar test that Sal uses and used a fish scale to measure drags.  I got a maximum drag from 4 of these reels of 20-22 lbs.  But I had to get that measurement by backing up with the reel as I did not have the strength to turn the handle at drags above 12-15 lbs.   So when I am setting the drag, I probably am not over 8#'s of drag--but that is not measured--just guestimated.  Still did not have problems with any of the aforementioned fish.  Good Luck with your quest for improving these reels.
TomT

8 lbs of drag is about only  30% of the supported  max drag setting for the BS.  My guess is you will be fine unless you start fishing for large yellowtail near the bottom, or are fishing far enough south to get into 100lb+ yellowfin.  At that you you will need to push up the drag to land fish.


I like the bench testing  first approach, but I expect that Lee is not interested in trashing his or anybody else's reels, so if we get a prototype in the hands of somebody who is consistently frying their dogs,  and the  problem goes away, that will be plenty of evidence.

[Keta]

I like the bench testing  first approach, but I expect that Lee is not interested in trashing his or anybody else's reels, so if we get a prototype in the hands of somebody who is consistently frying their dogs,  and the  problem goes away, that will be plenty of evidence.

That's right, I will return the US113/113N in the same shape I get it, well if it needs a servicing I'll do that.  The "destructive testing" I'll leave to the owner.

[Rivverrat]

Where we at with this presently ?....Jeff

[Rivverrat]

First thing....THIS IS NOT PENN'S FAULT IN ANY WAY .....AT ALL !
I openly admit I was fishing this reel past the drag Penn has told me in direct conversation was OK.

While using this reel I discovered when the drag was set above 25 lbs.There was noticeable resistance when cranking the handle. Much like you feel in a lever drag that has been set to heavy. I discovered this was from the spring washers under the star making contact with the sideplate. So I added a spacer to gain more clearance.

 lt is my belief this reel will give many years of service fished with a drag of 20 lbs. Fished with a drag of 25 lbs. & above, with the constant pulling of large fish to you  thats needed because of the gearing, this is putting a tremendous level of stress on the dog's post & anti reverse gear. This reel was being fished over 30 lbs.of drag

In the picture you can see the post have been pushed out & the damage to the tooth on the gear.
Im thinking the post can be the same size to fit the dog. However being a larger diameter going into the bridge & being attached by fine threads or by brazing or hard solder would give more strength.
I know they are frowned upon by some however I believe this situation would benefit from Ambassadeur
style dogs. Along with the larger diameter of the post being brought up above the bridge surface to support the dogs ....Jeff

[MarkT]

The threads on the stud look a little chewed too.  I'm surprised they didn't go out before the base was pushed off the stud.

[Rivverrat]

 This is a fantastic reel. Probably at its best with 50 lb. line only because of the gearing used. I'd love a 2:1 gear set in this reel. However if one is alright with pumping the rod & reeling down on fish as I am, it will I believe fish 80 lb. line with a drag set at 25 lbs. with few if any issues. For how long is my question. Any more drag a Penn 12 or 16 VSX  or similar caliber reel would be better.

I have learned a lot using this reel. I have had other failures with this reel. All of my own doing. Through these failures along with the halp & direction from others here on this sight I have learned a great deal regarding what I need & will look for in a reel to perform at a certain level. But yes I believe this reel is a keeper...Jeff

[Army_of_One]

The threads on the stud look a little chewed too.  I'm surprised they didn't go out before the base was pushed off the stud.

Is that "bite" marks from the drag washers a little farther down?

[Rancanfish]

Is it rude to keep asking what's up with this project? 

When Lee says it's right and ready I'm going to jump.