Penn Reels - just as you find them

[thorhammer]

Brother Dom, I think it's time for an updated photo of your fantastic display case.

[sdlehr]

So in this letter dated April of 1993 this guy says the first Penn reels were sold in 1931 when we have all this time been thinking the prototypes came out in '32 and the first year of production was '33. In 1993, when this letter was written, the reel was about 60 years old, and I have to assume the writer was going by a 60-year old memory. I just re-read the first few chapters of Mike's blue book about the first few years of the Penn company. There are dated receipts for the first plate molds from Kuhn and Jacobs, and sales receipts for sales to Edward K Tryon. On page 11, in the section written by Steve Vernon, it says Otto quit Ocean City in 1930. This would have made 1931 prototypes possible, but I think it more likely (at this point, with what I know now) that the writer of the above note mis-remembered by one year, and he should have written '32 instead of '31. I hope some interesting discussion follows.

[Tightlines667]

So in this letter dated April of 1993 this guy says the first Penn reels were sold in 1931 when we have all this time been thinking the prototypes came out in '32 and the first year of production was '33. In 1993, when this letter was written, the reel was about 60 years old, and I have to assume the writer was going by a 60-year old memory. I just re-read the first few chapters of Mike's blue book about the first few years of the Penn company. There are dated receipts for the first plate molds from Kuhn and Jacobs, and sales receipts for sales to Edward K Tryon. On page 11, in the section written by Steve Vernon, it says Otto quit Ocean City in 1930. This would have made 1931 prototypes possible, but I think it more likely (at this point, with what I know now) that the writer of the above note mis-remembered by one year, and he should have written '32 instead of '31. I hope some interesting discussion follows.

That is a great point/observation Sid.  I suspect an error was made in the letter, but it can not be simply ignored either.  It seems possible that the gift was made in 1931, but not actually produced/delivered until 1932.  If this letter is to be taken as fact, then it would indeed re-write the history books on the first year of production, and possible provide some suggestion as to what the first reel model, and in fact first actual reel, to be produced by Penn.  Although, I think this is somewhat unlikely.  Maybe Dom, or Ted can let us know if there were any marks left on the inside of the sideplate by the mold?

Seems like there is always something new turning up with regards to the early history of Penn.  However, one must be careful to read too much into evidence of this sort.

Regardless, this reel and associated letter are most certainly historically significant pieces.

John

[Penn Chronology]

No doubt this is a fantastic reel, the best "Model F" I have ever seen, it is kind of Earth shattering to believe it is a pre-1932 reel. I do not want to bust anyone's bubble about documentation; but, the early records of the Model F and K reels are fairly well documented. I do not believe it is possible for a Model F to exist in a completely ready for the market version in 1931.

I will simply put up a few photos.

The Model F Patent with its filing date of July 30, 1932.

The next photos are of the Model F prototype, which I own. The only known prototype of the actual patent. The prototype has no logo and other differences. The prototype is also chrome Plated. This is the only Model F prototype ever discovered as far as I know and it was found at the Penn Plant in 2003 in the office of a upper executive.
              The chrome plated Model F is unique. It never left the Penn Plant and as far as I know is the First Penn reel, although I cannot prove that.

This being said, I still feel Dominick's Model F is the best one I have ever seen and is no doubt a centerpiece for his collection.

[broadway]

Sid and John,
   I am going to try to find more out about this letter after Thanksgiving.  There was an envelope holding both the envelope and the letter Ted so kindly posted for me that has a name and  address on it that I will be contacting shortly.  The envelope was sent to Al Munger (One of the big reasons fishing reels are collectible and an author of many reel collecting books) who has since passed on.   I was fortunate to buy this from his collection of special reels.  
  Paul Ludtke opened a wholesale sporting goods store in Philly in 1932, ironically. That being said, I'm pretty sure he remembered the date correctly as he would've known if it were before or after his store opened, but what do I know.  Clearly, Paul wasn't winning any spelling bees or grammar contests, but he even remembered the guys name who bought the first Penn Reel (Walter Hatly) so his mind still seemed sharp.  There is a KJ (circle K) inside the plates but I suppose there could've been an order for a certain amount of sample plates so Otto could make sure things were gonna jive before he plunged into this too deep.  Most people do a sample or test run before ordering thousands of parts so I wouldn't be surprised if that's what happened here.  Lastly,  Otto may have left OC in 1930 but like most hard working people they get their ducks in a row before they leave a job especially during such hard times.  While I don't know if any of this is fact I do know it's worth looking into.   Mike, Ray, Brian, and the rest of you Penn historians need to chime in so we can get to the bottom of this.  I look forward to hearing others thoughts and ideas.
Thanks crew,
Dom

[broadway]

Mike,
  Somehow your posting didn't pop up until I posted my last posting.  Every time I see that prototype Model F my envy meter goes way up!  The chrome was later added, correct?
There's no busting any bubbles here... I just wanna get to the bottom of that letter.  Mike, do you know if Paul Ludtke was related to the Henze family as the letter is signed "Uncle Paul?"
I appreciate your insight and while I believe every word you're saying, do you think there is something to this letter?  Let's say he got the date wrong and it was supposed to be 1932 could it be that it's the first production Model F ever sold? ...it would seem plausible. I also like how he mentions that Penn reels and ephemera are now becoming collectible, i.e., the ashtrays and thermometers.  Any more info that I receive I will post in this thread. 
Thank you and let me know when you wanna sell that reel, Mike.
Dom

[Superhook]

All,

I'd expect the moulds to be quite expensive and as such I doubt that the mould makers would make the moulds for the making of prototype reels without charging Otto there and then .

If they were charged for the prototype moulds when first made they would not be charged again , unless they were remodelled and made again. Not likely to make such a costly mistake for an infant business watching costs.

If is possible to find the Invoice date for the moulds I believe that will help with the manufacturing date.  My opinion only.

Ray

[foakes]

An invoice for plate moulds would certainly tell more of the story --

But as for a company not charging up front for the moulds...

Otto was well regarded in the industry, and also had many previous contacts, suppliers, and friends that he developed relationships with over the years at OC.

We were a couple of years into the Great Depression that lasted around 12 years.  Craftsmen and equipment were easy to obtain -- particularly if the slight hopeful promise of more business down the road if the Penn experiment became successful was a possibility. 

So it wasn't like it is today -- cash on the barrelhead, or no product.  People wanted work and a future, machinery was idled, soup lines were around the block -- other forces were at the forefront of business motives.

So we need to look at things through the lens of the times also.

Even though a fresh startup -- Otto was well known to those suppliers in the industry -- both as a smart engineer -- but also a man of integrity -- who would pay his bills promptly when an agreement was concluded.

Things were different in those days --

This will be a neat mystery to unravel, if possible.

But one thing for sure -- if this is not the Penn Holy Grail, it sits in the same vicinity.

Glad it found a good home.

Congratulations, Dom!

Best,

Fred

[erikpowell]

Bula All,

Dom, Bula! and congratulations!
That is a beautiful find and with an incredible history & story!
I hope it pans out as you said.
It sure seems likely, especially considering Fred's wealth of input regarding those times.
I think Fred may have nailed it..... Old school business ways amongst gentlemen in trying times.... and you may never find a paper trail.
What a score of true museum quality!

[Shark Hunter]

Congratulations on that Piece of True Penn History Dom.
Can't think of a better place it needs to be right now.
Erik,
It is good to see you old friend.

[foakes]

Erik --

Good to hear from you.

You have been missed!

Fill us in...

Best,

Fred

[Penn Chronology]

Just a thought before I go overeat. The chrome plating on my old prototype is original. The clicker button is unique to 1932 and 1933 and could not have been chrome plated after it was installed on the tail plate.

The side plates are not Kuhn-Jacobs, they are early hand molded plates. They have no markings. If a reel has  Circle K on the side plates, it is 1932 or later.

[54bullseye]

Well I know this is going to get trampled by the "Model F controversy" but it's a pre part number 12/0 I bought of ebay a couple months ago and I just cleaned it up yesterday. I am not great a dating Penn reels like most of the rest of you but I am thinking 1940 or so ?  Dom your model F is sweet no mater date it was made !!! Congrats on that one !!!

Happy Thanksgiving to all !!       John Taylor

[broadway]

John Thorhammer, Photos to come, pal.
Thanks John Bullseye, you have quite a nice early 12/0 right there.  Beautiful restorative cleaning you've done.  
I personally, can't lay an exact date on her but she is an early second gen so probably '40-'42, certainly pre war.
Also, I'm a sucker for handles and that is one heck of a handle on her.
Mike, That chrome is surprising on such an early Penn reel.  Beautiful! ...and I see what you mean about the clicker button.
I will do some more research and keep you all posted.
Erik, Great to hear from you and thanks for the nice words.  Hope to see you around more as I miss seeing some sizable fish caught on those 9/0's.
Fred,  Thanks for your input, as usual, it is very true and while I don't know what this letter means I will do my best to find out some more info.  I will take good care of the letter as I do all my babies. 
Daron, She'll be held with great curiosity and care. Thank you!
Enjoy filling those bellies,
Dom

[Penn Chronology]

Well I know this is going to get trampled by the "Model F controversy" but it's a pre part number 12/0 I bought of ebay a couple months ago and I just cleaned it up yesterday. I am not great a dating Penn reels like most of the rest of you but I am thinking 1940 or so ?

Happy Thanksgivings John. My humble opinion on this reel is that it is a late 1940's post-war reel because of the obvious fact that it is a second generation reel and that the spool is pinned and not drilled. I would think pre-war reels had drilled spools and the info is still controversial on whether the second gen build style for the Model 116 exists in a pre-war time zone for production reels. Maybe someone can document that (I just found a 12/0 second gen picture from 1941). The catalogs say it ain't so...........