casting with conventional reels

[TheReelShop]

In my experience, my best casts with conventional reels has been on my Penn Longbeach 67. After that my TLD25 Both are on rods under 6'. As the others mentioned the braking system on bait casters, I use my thumbs as the brake just like you said. When your conventional reel is too smooth and there is no braking system, it will create a birds nest.

Something important for me has been to keep the weight as close to the tip which can be detrimental in some cases in regards to catching fish.  To elaborate better, Ill cast a small bait off the pier with an 8oz sinker (tides are rough and I need the bait to sit in position). Now when I cast, the sinker will determine the length of the cast not the bait due to the heavier item. But what will happen sometimes is that the weight of the bait (lighter) will counter set (I don't know how to explain that) the 8oz sinker and the cast becomes crap and a birds nest occurs. Better example, to ends with the same weight will spin evenly but two ends with different weights and its all thrown off balance. Now theoretically if I just cast the 8oz sinker it will go out beautiful with no problem in other words its good to have a heavy bait. This can be of some help.

[valkie]

I agree Red
Through experimentation I also found that keeping the weight closer to the tip reduces the nesting.
My theory;
The weight, when cast with a longer lead, tends to whip the line at the start rather than allow a smooth gradual increase in acceleration.
The result, the spool is suddenly accelerated to a high speed rather than a gradual more controlled increase in speed.
This makes unspooling harder to control as we want to want a free spool initially with a gradually decreasing speed as the weight slows down.
With the sudden increase the spool overtakes the lines ability to feed out = birds nest.

As for bait setup from rocks. (Totally different from all my other fishing)
I use a running sinker right down to the bait, no swivel.
I have found this most effective from rocks, still catch plenty of fish and don't seem to get hung up on rocks quite as often as I do when using a trace line and remote sinker.

I fish with Cunji, which is a reasonably heavy bait which covers the hook very well.
I also use longer shank hooks.
I still loose a few hooks and sinkers each fishing outing though, but that is par for the course when fishing off rocks.

PS
Lately I have been using an Alvey side cast on the last few outings.
I am getting only slightly better distance from this reel than I was getting from the overhead (probably my lousy casting technique)
I will therefore be persevering with the overhead, I like using overheads, especially when fighting a fish.
The side cast I use has no drag and relies on me releasing the wind handles and using my hand on the bottom of the reel to act as a friction drag. Nowhere near as effective as the proper drag on an overhead.
As you guys have stated ad-infinitum, practice, practice, practice.

Cheers

[newport]

I haven't really read anyone's replies, but I don't want to sound redundant when everyone else has pretty much said everything already. Just practice and you will eventually get it. It's mostly about educating your thumb and getting used to throwing a conventional setup. Once you get it, you will realize it's not that hard. I surfcast off the jetties and beach with strictly conventional gear, except when I am throwing light lures. My favorite reel right now is the akios 656ctm, which I bought the beginning of the year and love it. It is so smooth, and casts so well. I like it better than my abu. Even though they both have the same 5.3:1 gear ratio, the akios feels like it is a slower gear the way it is buttery smooth cranking in heavy lead and bait. The abu struggles in comparison. It has two braking systems, a centrifigul and magnetic, but I don't really need it unless I am tossing something particularly light or if there is a strong head wind. You don't need to have a breaking system to cast well. I didn't when I first learned. You will get to a point where you can get a sense of a birdsnest coming and prevent it and still make a good cast. Persevere and practice and you will love it.

[TheReelShop]

I agree Red
Through experimentation I also found that keeping the weight closer to the tip reduces the nesting.
My theory;
The weight, when cast with a longer lead, tends to whip the line at the start rather than allow a smooth gradual increase in acceleration.
The result, the spool is suddenly accelerated to a high speed rather than a gradual more controlled increase in speed.
This makes unspooling harder to control as we want to want a free spool initially with a gradually decreasing speed as the weight slows down.
With the sudden increase the spool overtakes the lines ability to feed out = birds nest.

As for bait setup from rocks. (Totally different from all my other fishing)
I use a running sinker right down to the bait, no swivel.
I have found this most effective from rocks, still catch plenty of fish and don't seem to get hung up on rocks quite as often as I do when using a trace line and remote sinker.

I fish with Cunji, which is a reasonably heavy bait which covers the hook very well.
I also use longer shank hooks.
I still loose a few hooks and sinkers each fishing outing though, but that is par for the course when fishing off rocks.

PS
Lately I have been using an Alvey side cast on the last few outings.
I am getting only slightly better distance from this reel than I was getting from the overhead (probably my lousy casting technique)
I will therefore be persevering with the overhead, I like using overheads, especially when fighting a fish.
The side cast I use has no drag and relies on me releasing the wind handles and using my hand on the bottom of the reel to act as a friction drag. Nowhere near as effective as the proper drag on an overhead.
As you guys have stated ad-infinitum, practice, practice, practice.

Cheers

agreed...

I haven't really read anyone's replies, but I don't want to sound redundant when everyone else has pretty much said everything already. Just practice and you will eventually get it. It's mostly about educating your thumb and getting used to throwing a conventional setup. Once you get it, you will realize it's not that hard. I surfcast off the jetties and beach with strictly conventional gear, except when I am throwing light lures. My favorite reel right now is the akios 656ctm, which I bought the beginning of the year and love it. It is so smooth, and casts so well. I like it better than my abu. Even though they both have the same 5.3:1 gear ratio, the akios feels like it is a slower gear the way it is buttery smooth cranking in heavy lead and bait. The abu struggles in comparison. It has two braking systems, a centrifigul and magnetic, but I don't really need it unless I am tossing something particularly light or if there is a strong head wind. You don't need to have a breaking system to cast well. I didn't when I first learned. You will get to a point where you can get a sense of a birdsnest coming and prevent it and still make a good cast. Persevere and practice and you will love it.

agreed...





this is all great info and learning from each other

[mike1010]

One thing I've found useful is to thumb the spool flange instead of the spool arbor with the line on it, which can sometimes turn a little bit of slack into a major mess.  Of course this assumes a spool that has enough of a flange.   Not all modern reels have that, but lots of good old Penns do.

Mike

[Newell Nut]

The trick to being successful casting conventionals is learn to feel the flex of the rod and let it make the cast for you. It is when people try to force something to happen without the use of the rod flex that things get really messed up.

[Reel 224]

The trick to being successful casting conventionals is learn to feel the flex of the rod and let it make the cast for you. It is when people try to force something to happen without the use of the rod flex that things get really messed up.

That's good advice along with practice.

Joe

[oc1]

Newell is absolutely correct.  Even a well tuned reel will backlash if the rod does not properly load and unload.  In a smooth cast the rod will load (flex backward) and then straighten out (unload) or bend slightly forward on the release.  If you try to force it, the rod will load more power, but when it unloads the tip will bounce around instead of just straightening out.  That bouncing makes the force applied to the reel through the  peeling line pulsate.  The speed of the spool cannot pulsate so the line goes taut-slack-taut-slack-taut-slack.  That's when loops form and things go wrong.

Pay attention to the rod specifications and use the lure weight and line weight it was designed for.  The rod cannot properly load and unload if the weight of lure/bait is outside the specified range.  Adjust the reel brakes and/or thumb pressure to the weight of the lure/bait.

The caveat here is that a sleek metal jig has a different density (specific gravity) than a big chunk of bait of the same weight so the wind resistance will be different.  Switching from a sleek metal jig to a big chunk of bait is like casting down wind and then turning around and casting upwind.  When you change the wind resistance you change the force being applied to the spool.  When you change the force being applied to the spool then you have to change the braking, either through reel controls (magnets, centrifugal brakes) or thumbing.

-steve

[funhog]

All of the above is very good info . I have two more morsels to add that I learned from fishing for tuna on crowded party boats in So, CA.

1) Always wet your spool of line at the start and throughout the day. It seems to relax the line and lets it flow off the spool better. Keep the top 25yards( or what ever distance you can cast a bait) not just damp , but wet.  For me it ravels through the guides and air in a flatter arc to the distance its going ( less affected buy a breeze /wind.
2) When releasing a loaded-up rod with a baited line, you should be pointing the rod tip at the bait or lure all the way through the cast - like looking down the gun site of a rifle.  This allows the line to flow out freely with little resistance from the guides. As the lure starts to drop down and the arc in the line begins grow, follow it with the rod tip and and slowly thumb the edge of the spool. to slow the spool down and control the run off of line,

This and all of the post above helps me and keeps my birds nest count down to a manageable level... on most trips.

[Newell Nut]

What you want to happen is for the weight to stay ahead of the spool speed. Sounds easy but not easy without practice. I cast conventionals easy from a boat but I have been practicing shore casting with an 11 foot stick with my Newell 344 in preparation for my next trip to Hawaii. I have a 13 footer weighting for me so I need to be ready. After studying some long cast competitions I saw some things to work on. I have been making some really long cast in the bass lake behind the house and then I tried something that I keyed in on while watching videos. I made sure my right arm was perfectly straight in the cast and the loading of the rod was much greater and when the weight launched it stay ahead of the spool perfectly and only needed a thumb as it entered the water and I gained about 40 yds. Every cast in that manner worked perfect. Another thing that I noticed was similar to nice tee shots. When you make a technically perfect golf swing you should be looking at the golf ball as it sails down fairway. I noticed in my technically improved casting that I was seeing my weight flying perfectly in the direction that I wanted it to go. I could watch the weight and the spool all at the same time.

Practice, Practice and  Practice.

[mizmo67]

Recently I decided to replace my old Alvey side cast surf reel with a conventional overhead reel.
My rod is a surf caster 12 foot.
STOP LAUGHING, ITS NOT FUNNY.

My first attempt resulted in a birds nest of truly humungious proportions.
STOP LAUGHING

An hour and several hundred of feet of fishing line later I prepared for my second cast.
This time I was far more careful, making sure my thumb was in the right place and that there was some tension on the reel.
Casting with much less effort I watched as the sinker arched beautifully toward the breakers, somewhat mystified when it suddenly stopped.
Glancing back at the reel, I observed a beautiful birds nest that any bird would have been proud of.
STOP LAUGHING.

*snort* wipes away tear
Oh, thank you..I needed that this morning.

Sorry, I'm absolutely no help here..my surf rod is a spinning combo and that's the setup I prefer. I can't cast conventional to save my life.

[Ron Jones]

I have had the oportunuty to teach several people over the last few years how to cast a reel. I, as some here well know, am not a true SME on the subject, but I can get you started and out to 30 yards or so in a couple of sessions. I start people without letting them cast, I have them hold the spool with there thumb, kick the reel out of gear and simulate an easy cast with so much thumb pressure the spool doesn't move. Then they kick the reel back into gear and start over. After 5-6 of those I have them allow the cast to take 5ish yards of line and then stop the spool with the thumb. So on and so on. The idea is to try to not introduce the feeling of a bird's nest. This will usually get them in the water after a couple of days.
Ron

[fishhawk]

very good stuff here. I too do a lot of practice casting and what has been said is very spot on!

[sdlehr]

Mods, can we stickie this?

Sid

[Jeri]

Hi All,

With our life pretty much evolving around surf casting, and then distance surf casting - we get to see and hear a lot of advice from clients. However, I didn't always do surf casting, in fact until 15 years ago, never picked one of these long rod things up, but on moving to Namibia to live, I had to start, and obviously have become reasonably proficient.

During the learning phase, I reached a point where I could get no further than about 120 metres, and felt that this was a problem, so searched the internet for a solution, and despite all the obvious video clips that show a huge number of styles and systems, the absolute best source of information came from John Holden's CD-ROM 'Book'. Yes, it has video clips, but it has that often essential element that is missing today, which is good explanatory text. Great something to read, even if it is ona  computer screen!!

The book goes through very European style of surf fishing, but this can be adapted,a nd if you don't skip sections - thinking 'I know that' - or 'what can I learn about standing in the right place' - then you will learn heaps.

On getting the book and starting to read it, by midway through, I could resist having a casting session over grass/sand, and took a rod out. First did 3 casts in my old style, then applied the newer 'Easy Cast' style, and within 30 minutes I had extended my personal best distances beyond 150 metres, just from reading some very sound words of wisdom, froma  guy that knows what he is talking about.

The CD-ROM is titled:  Long Distance Casting 2 by John Holden. And for those that collect, the original 'paper book', was a gem, but now a collectors item, as it is over 30 years old.

Hope that helps


Jeri