Are these bearings serviceable?

[FatTuna]

So I have a few old school Tiagras. Some of the bearings are pretty gritty feeling. Some aren't too bad but feel like they need to be serviced. A knowledgeable member on here informed me that these bearings don't have removable shields. He was right. How do you service a bearing when you can't open them up? I'm used to pulling the shields off and leaving them unshielded. Soaking them in carb cleaner then repacking with grease.

One of the bearings was pretty banged up. It had a dented shield and felt really bad so I decided to dissect it. It went okay.... I manged to pry the shield off cleanly but it wasn't easy. It's unlike any bearing I've ever seen before. I have a feeling I destroyed it for the sake of curiosity. I didn't trust it anyway. Here is a picture. If anyone can tell if it's destroyed I would appreciate it.

The other bearing shown is one that goes on the gear shaft. Both of those feel like they need to be serviced as well. I'm tempted to try prying those shields off but would like feedback before I risk it. For some reason those are listed as $17 bearings but they don't appear to do much aside from support the gear shaft and make the handle easier to turn. Unless I'm missing something. I'm tempted to replace these with cheaper generic bearings.

I just bought one of Alan's bearing packers but I haven't had a chance to mess around with it yet.

Can anyone tell me if the old school Tiagra bearings are the same size as the new ones? I can provide measurements if you need them.

I'm really hoping that I can salvage most of these bearings somehow as they are expensive as hell and each reel has six of them! I can't really afford to replace them all but I need my reels working smoothly.... Push comes to shove, I'm going to replace them. 

[josa1]

I think the bearing looks fine.  I would suggest that you clean the old grease out like you mentioned, then repack it with Yamaha Marine Grease.  When that's done, hold the inner race between your thumb and index finger and rotate the outer race.  If the bearing is bad you'll fell a definite roughness.  Otherwise, just install it in the reel and use it until it needs repacking again.

Good luck!

josa1

[FatTuna]

I think the bearing looks fine.  I would suggest that you clean the old grease out like you mentioned, then repack it with Yamaha Marine Grease.  When that's done, hold the inner race between your thumb and index finger and rotate the outer race.  If the bearing is bad you'll fell a definite roughness.  Otherwise, just install it in the reel and use it until it needs repacking again.

Good luck!

josa1

Thanks for the response. It's hard to tell from this picture but what you are seeing inside that bearing is some kind of plastic/rubber cover not grease. Underneath it looks pretty rusty. I will try and show another picture.

[FatTuna]

More pics:

[Bryan Young]

Is that after cleaning or before?

If you damaged the bearing you would feel it. Place the bearing in the palm of your hand then put a little pressure in the inner race with your index finger and twist back and forth. Then rotate the bearing a little and repeat. If still feels smooth it should be fine.

I'm a little concerned about the color. This may not be a good sign but may still be fishable for another season if it's packed with grease.

Good luck.

[FatTuna]

Agreed, the color is not pretty. This is before cleaning. It feels like there is a little bump at a certain point in the rotation.

This one was the pinon bearing. We hooked a decent fish on this reel last season and the drag was a bit jerky. Not sure if this bearing could have played a part in that. There is another thread on here where I was discussing my drag/drag plate with Tightlines666. It had some scoring and there was a bit of wear on the carbon fiber washers. I replaced the drag plate and the belleville washers. I held off on replacing the drag washers. Figure I will try testing it before spending $45 per washer.

[Tightlines667]

I have made the same mistake of pulling these shields before, and discovered the silicon/rubber Seal as well.  I think you can actually pull that rubber off, clean out all the bits, and clean the bearing throughly.  Acetone  also will disolve the silicone into a gooy mess (ask me how I know)  Once cleaned, check for roughness and/or excessive lateral play.  If it is good after you clean it.. pack it with grease and reinstall shield up.  

I understand your concerns with the costslotted associated with the bearings.  You should be able to pull the shields off of the drive shaft bearings as well.  You can clean tye bearings w/of removing the shields as well.  Just soak them in mineral spirits, then spray liberally with carb or break cleaner until clean.  I run mine through a sonic cleaner as well.

You could invest in a small jewelry one, to use just for cleaning bearings.  Do them in a sealed jar.  You can then rewrap it and give it to your wife for valentine's day, or her birthday.  You can always borrow it when you have bearings that need cleaning.  Just a thought.  

But, just for your info.. I typically have to replace the 2 drive shaft bearings, and the pinion on most older Tiagras that still have the origional bearings in them, sometimes more.  Put any new ones in the pinion, then tailplate, then right spool, then left spool (in that order of importance), since they tend to wear out in that order.  

I've always thought that since these drive shaft bearings almost always need replacing at regular intervals, and are a source of water/salt intrusion... boca blue seals could be great canidates.  I really should order up a stack once my stack of stock ones run out.  

Bearings are the most common point of failure in these reels, and unfortunately also lead to the highest typical costs related to service... so take care of them.

[alantani]

clean them out with carb or brake cleaner and see what you have left.  it looks almost like a phenolic race. 

[FatTuna]

I have made the same mistake of pulling these shields before, and discovered the silicon/rubber Seal as well.  I think you can actually pull that rubber off, clean out all the bits, and clean the bearing throughly.  Acetone  also will disolve the silicone into a gooy mess (ask me how I know)  Once cleaned, check for roughness and/or excessive lateral play.  If it is good after you clean it.. pack it with grease and reinstall shield up.  

I understand your concerns with the costslotted associated with the bearings.  You should be able to pull the shields off of the drive shaft bearings as well.  You can clean tye bearings w/of removing the shields as well.  Just soak them in mineral spirits, then spray liberally with carb or break cleaner until clean.  I run mine through a sonic cleaner as well.

You could invest in a small jewelry one, to use just for cleaning bearings.  Do them in a sealed jar.  You can then rewrap it and give it to your wife for valentine's day, or her birthday.  You can always borrow it when you have bearings that need cleaning.  Just a thought.  

But, just for your info.. I typically have to replace the 2 drive shaft bearings, and the pinion on most older Tiagras that still have the origional bearings in them, sometimes more.  Put any new ones in the pinion, then tailplate, then right spool, then left spool (in that order of importance), since they tend to wear out in that order.  

I've always thought that since these drive shaft bearings almost always need replacing at regular intervals, and are a source of water/salt intrusion... boca blue seals could be great canidates.  I really should order up a stack once my stack of stock ones run out.  

Bearings are the most common point of failure in these reels, and unfortunately also lead to the highest typical costs related to service... so take care of them.

Thanks for the write up. I guess I've been lucky so far in that all the used reels I've bought have had good bearings. The two 50Ws I have are pretty new. The 80Ws are all dated early to mid 2000s.

I'm always willing to invest in a tool that can save me time and money. I saw that Harbor Freight has a couple of sonic cleaners. They seem affordable too.

So you think the drive bearings have issues because they are exposed to the salt more?

I think the other 3 big ones in this reel will be salvageable since I can clean them with the shields on. They feel smooth but a bit sluggish. This one has a bump in it. I'm going to play it safe and replace it. The drive bearings, I will try cleaning first.

Would a worn pinon bearing affect drag smoothness?

[Tightlines667]

I have made the same mistake of pulling these shields before, and discovered the silicon/rubber Seal as well.  I think you can actually pull that rubber off, clean out all the bits, and clean the bearing throughly.  Acetone  also will disolve the silicone into a gooy mess (ask me how I know)  Once cleaned, check for roughness and/or excessive lateral play.  If it is good after you clean it.. pack it with grease and reinstall shield up.  

I understand your concerns with the costslotted associated with the bearings.  You should be able to pull the shields off of the drive shaft bearings as well.  You can clean tye bearings w/of removing the shields as well.  Just soak them in mineral spirits, then spray liberally with carb or break cleaner until clean.  I run mine through a sonic cleaner as well.

You could invest in a small jewelry one, to use just for cleaning bearings.  Do them in a sealed jar.  You can then rewrap it and give it to your wife for valentine's day, or her birthday.  You can always borrow it when you have bearings that need cleaning.  Just a thought.  

But, just for your info.. I typically have to replace the 2 drive shaft bearings, and the pinion on most older Tiagras that still have the origional bearings in them, sometimes more.  Put any new ones in the pinion, then tailplate, then right spool, then left spool (in that order of importance), since they tend to wear out in that order.  

I've always thought that since these drive shaft bearings almost always need replacing at regular intervals, and are a source of water/salt intrusion... boca blue seals could be great canidates.  I really should order up a stack once my stack of stock ones run out.  

Bearings are the most common point of failure in these reels, and unfortunately also lead to the highest typical costs related to service... so take care of them.

Thanks for the write up. I guess I've been lucky so far in that all the used reels I've bought have had good bearings. The two 50Ws I have are pretty new. The 80Ws are all dated early to mid 2000s.

I'm always willing to invest in a tool that can save me time and money. I saw that Harbor Freight has a couple of sonic cleaners. They seem affordable too.

So you think the drive bearings have issues because they are exposed to the salt more?

I think the other 3 big ones in this reel will be salvageable since I can clean them with the shields on. They feel smooth but a bit sluggish. This one has a bump in it. I'm going to play it safe and replace it. The drive bearings, I will try cleaning first.

Would a worn pinon bearing affect drag smoothness?

I suspect the water/salt intrusion has alot to do with failure rate on the drive bearings.. sealed bearings heremail might help with failure rate, and they will help to lessen intrusion into the rest of the reel.  They also have small balls and narrow gap between inner and outter races.  Also, new bearings here will make the reel crank smoother. 

Worn pinion bearing shouldn't really affect affect drag smoothness,  since the drag disc is connected to the spool shaft which will stay stationary when the anti reverse dogs are engaged.  It will create roughness when cranking, that is exasperated by increasing loads though. 

If you have a rough drag, better look elsewhere. 

[gstours]

Hi, I thought I would add my too cents worth,     As your picture shows it appears that there is still some grease in there, and that may have kept down the rust/corrosion.   The pinion bearing works the hardest in my opinion, and is the first to fail......
   As stated acetone bath will soften the shields, then use carb cleaner liberally,   blow dry, relube....... then roll the bearing in the palm of your hand.  It it feels sticky at all,  discard it,  and keep them cleaned and lubed annually for the next good fish.
    I think if the pinion is the same size as the other end shaft bearing, you could exchange them and see if that feels better,  as the pinion usually fails first.   I found out that this makes for harder cranking when drag pressures are raised, thats another clue about pinion bearing health and well being.    Hope this helps,                 Hooking only heightens the anticipation!         Good luck      gst.

[FatTuna]

Hi, I thought I would add my too cents worth,     As your picture shows it appears that there is still some grease in there, and that may have kept down the rust/corrosion.   The pinion bearing works the hardest in my opinion, and is the first to fail......
   As stated acetone bath will soften the shields, then use carb cleaner liberally,   blow dry, relube....... then roll the bearing in the palm of your hand.  It it feels sticky at all,  discard it,  and keep them cleaned and lubed annually for the next good fish.
    I think if the pinion is the same size as the other end shaft bearing, you could exchange them and see if that feels better,  as the pinion usually fails first.   I found out that this makes for harder cranking when drag pressures are raised, thats another clue about pinion bearing health and well being.    Hope this helps,                 Hooking only heightens the anticipation!         Good luck      gst.

I cleaned up this particular bearing with some carb cleaner and it still has a couple of rough spots. I ordered a new one. The others I'm going to try cleaning but I'm going to leave the shields on.

I had the same idea about replacing one of the other bearings with the pinon. They are all the same bearing (aside from the drive bearings).

[FatTuna]

I have made the same mistake of pulling these shields before, and discovered the silicon/rubber Seal as well.  I think you can actually pull that rubber off, clean out all the bits, and clean the bearing throughly.  Acetone  also will disolve the silicone into a gooy mess (ask me how I know)  Once cleaned, check for roughness and/or excessive lateral play.  If it is good after you clean it.. pack it with grease and reinstall shield up.  

I understand your concerns with the costslotted associated with the bearings.  You should be able to pull the shields off of the drive shaft bearings as well.  You can clean tye bearings w/of removing the shields as well.  Just soak them in mineral spirits, then spray liberally with carb or break cleaner until clean.  I run mine through a sonic cleaner as well.

You could invest in a small jewelry one, to use just for cleaning bearings.  Do them in a sealed jar.  You can then rewrap it and give it to your wife for valentine's day, or her birthday.  You can always borrow it when you have bearings that need cleaning.  Just a thought.  

But, just for your info.. I typically have to replace the 2 drive shaft bearings, and the pinion on most older Tiagras that still have the origional bearings in them, sometimes more.  Put any new ones in the pinion, then tailplate, then right spool, then left spool (in that order of importance), since they tend to wear out in that order.  

I've always thought that since these drive shaft bearings almost always need replacing at regular intervals, and are a source of water/salt intrusion... boca blue seals could be great canidates.  I really should order up a stack once my stack of stock ones run out.  

Bearings are the most common point of failure in these reels, and unfortunately also lead to the highest typical costs related to service... so take care of them.

Thanks for the write up. I guess I've been lucky so far in that all the used reels I've bought have had good bearings. The two 50Ws I have are pretty new. The 80Ws are all dated early to mid 2000s.

I'm always willing to invest in a tool that can save me time and money. I saw that Harbor Freight has a couple of sonic cleaners. They seem affordable too.

So you think the drive bearings have issues because they are exposed to the salt more?

I think the other 3 big ones in this reel will be salvageable since I can clean them with the shields on. They feel smooth but a bit sluggish. This one has a bump in it. I'm going to play it safe and replace it. The drive bearings, I will try cleaning first.

Would a worn pinon bearing affect drag smoothness?

I suspect the water/salt intrusion has alot to do with failure rate on the drive bearings.. sealed bearings heremail might help with failure rate, and they will help to lessen intrusion into the rest of the reel.  They also have small balls and narrow gap between inner and outter races.  Also, new bearings here will make the reel crank smoother. 

Worn pinion bearing shouldn't really affect affect drag smoothness,  since the drag disc is connected to the spool shaft which will stay stationary when the anti reverse dogs are engaged.  It will create roughness when cranking, that is exasperated by increasing loads though. 

If you have a rough drag, better look elsewhere. 

That makes sense. I never really thought about what was happening mechanically with the dogs engaging. So the spool shaft remains stationary and the spool revolves around it. Would that mean that the spool bearings could influence drag smoothness? I would think that they could but it wouldn't be a significant contributing factor unless they were really bad. Freespool was fine on this reel so I don't think it could be a factor.

I was reading a thread on here last night about Avet's drag testing experiment. It sounds like they crimped line to the back of a truck and hit the gas. I might try it, lol. I've got all winter to perfect/test them.

At this point, I'm going to work with the parts I already have. At a later date, I may choose to swap some of the drag washers when I have more cash to dump into them.