Makaira 10II-SEa - spool turning when in freespool - pinion?

[Jon_Kol]

Hi guys!

Just serviced a Makaira 10II SEa with three new spool bearings, the spool was with no freespool when I recieved the reel, and the spool would rotate as soon as you'd turn the handle.

Now the new spool bearings are in place, but I left out the pinion bearing on the basis that it felt ok when I moved it around with my finger. But having put the reel back together again now, the spool rotates when I turn the handle - whilst the reel is in free spool - and it gets harder to rotate when I increase the drag (all done whilst in free spool, of course) and turn the handle.

So is the pinion bearing bust as well? I guess that's the most likely cause now that the three spool bearings are new? Drag seems to be fine when I play around with it, so the spool system with the absurd number of washers should be ok.

Ideas? Thanks!

[Jon_Kol]

30 reads and no replies, this ain't looking too good 

I think I'm gonna gamble on the pinion bearing being the culprit, I'm not looking forward to disassembling the Makaira dog-system though..

[otownjoe]

I have the same problem on my mak 10sea.my bearings are as new with no excess stress on them .I think it might be something else. The problem started after I gave the reel it's first service. I haven't tried to fix the problem yet.hopefully someone can help.
Joe

[Jon_Kol]

I have the same problem on my mak 10sea.my bearings are as new with no excess stress on them .I think it might be something else. The problem started after I gave the reel it's first service. I haven't tried to fix the problem yet.hopefully someone can help.
Joe

Really? Strange! I found that there's a significant difference when the reel shifts between high and low gear, I think it's when it's in high gear that the spool turns like crazy even with the reel in freespool, but in low gear it hardly spins at all when the handle is turned - UNTIL I increase the drag pressure. So there must be a link between the drag adjustment and the spool, and the link between would be the pinion bearing.. but who knows?

[conchydong]

The forum Okuma expert just had a new baby, so that is why you probably have not received any replies yet. Perhaps, someone else with Makaira experience will chime in.

[handi2]

The spool turning while cranking in free spool is ok IF you can stop it from turning with just a touch of a finger.

[Jon_Kol]

The spool turning while cranking in free spool is ok IF you can stop it from turning with just a touch of a finger.

Yeah, but as mentioned in my post - when the drag is increased, so is the pressure on the spool. When in freespool and the drag is increased, there comes a moment where the spool will no longer spin - the freespool is lost. Note that this happens while the reel is STILL in freespool, the lever has not been moved.

I can't return a reel to it's owner in such a state - this was part of the problem when he sent me the reel. He says that he believes the reel was serviced by the firm handling Okuma here in Norway, so I guess it has been opened and handled earlier.

If it's not the pinion bearing, what could be binding the spool?

[Jon_Kol]

I took the entire anti-reverse system apart just now, removed the right sideplate bearing (where the pinion gear sits), cleaned it, re-lubed it etc and put the entire system back together. The bearing felt fine and sure enough - it didn't help a bit to do all this work.

So I'm throwing a new theory out there - what if it's the spool spring that has lost some of it's function due to this reel having sat with rusted bearings, keeping the spool shaft squeezed really tight together and thereby also the spring having sat there under a major strain?

Wouldn't a semi-functional spool spring be just the thing that can keep a spool from moving freely in and out sideways when the drag is adjusted, and thereby also keeping the spool a bit "stuck" to the drag cam system? When I tighten the drag and move the lever arm from Free to Strike, I find it to be barely visible to see the right hand side of the spool move in, and then out when I put the lever arm into Free again.. on other lever drag reels this movement has been must more determined and visible.

It's very late and I'm crosseyed-tired so I might be way off here, let me know if I am.

[handi2]

I think I know what you are doing now.

When in free spool you are turning the preset dial until the spool quits turning. That is normal. You are turning the drag up too far. I bet you can't even move the drag lever when you do this.

The preset dial is pulling the spool closer to the drag plate and stopping the spool from turning.

Try this;

Back off on the drag prest dial until you have good free spool and no drag when you push the lever to strike.

Pull the drag lever back down into free spool. Spin the spool and turn the preset dial until the spool ever so slightly slows down. That's the max drag for that reel or maybe even more.

The drag lever should push to strike and everything should be fine.

[Jon_Kol]

I think I know what you are doing now.

When in free spool you are turning the preset dial until the spool quits turning. That is normal. You are turning the drag up too far. I bet you can't even move the drag lever when you do this.

The preset dial is pulling the spool closer to the drag plate and stopping the spool from turning.

Try this;

Back off on the drag prest dial until you have good free spool and no drag when you push the lever to strike.

Pull the drag lever back down into free spool. Spin the spool and turn the preset dial until the spool ever so slightly slows down. That's the max drag for that reel or maybe even more.

The drag lever should push to strike and everything should be fine.

It could be that my written English is horrible, I don't know.. I understand what you think that I'm doing, but it's not what's going on.

To illustrate it, I did what you mentioned - about finding the max drag for this reel. Well, if this is the max range for this reel then the Makaira 10II-SEa will have trouble landing a baby sea bass. I appreciate your comment, it's probably just my lousy written English that might be confusing.

The reel hardly needs the drag preset dial to be turned before freespool is eliminated. There's hardly any drag to speak of (I can rotate the spool with my finger with ease with the reel in Strike) but there's no freespool when the lever goes from Strike to Free. Nothing! I can back the drag preset dial all the way out, start turning it back on again and within a few turns, freespool is lost and the reel barely has a hint of drag if I then move the lever to Strike to test the drag.

So no, there's no problem moving the drag lever, I haven't even begun tightening the drag to an amount so that the lever gets harder to push towards Strike. The problem is that freespool is not achived even with the drag set to such a minimum that I'm worried that the preset dial might fall off, and turning the handle makes the spool rotate no matter how low the drag is set. If I gradually increase the drag, the handle and spool feels harder to turn and freespool is eliminated 100%. Yet, the drag is - at this point - still set low enough that I can turn the spool with two fingers without having to use much force.

So there must be something not releasing the drive gears from the spool. When I got the reel, I was sure that it was simply the spool bearings - as I've seen this in Daiwa Saltigas, Talicas etc. But no.. there's something more going on in this reel. I'm also curious as to why it helps to switch between high and low gear - in high gear the spool needs more resistans to rotate when the handle is turned.

Again, please don't take this comment in a bad way - I mean no disrespect and I truly appreciate your suggestions.

[handi2]

Now we know there is something very wrong with the reel. I haven't been in a Makaira in a while but I would check the spring washers in the spool and make sure they are in there right.

I own the 16II, 15II, and 20II.

[MarkT]

If the drag plate is in contact with the spool when in free spool then something is causing it to not move away. Is the bearing supporting the drag plate stuck to the spool shaft? If the reel was left with the drag set and it corroded then that's it. A weak compression spring can cause it too.

[Jon_Kol]

If the drag plate is in contact with the spool when in free spool then something is causing it to not move away. Is the bearing supporting the drag plate stuck to the spool shaft? If the reel was left with the drag set and it corroded then that's it. A weak compression spring can cause it too.

I replaced all three bearings that are seated in the spool, the drag plate bearing was one of them. Like I mentioned a couple of comments earlier, my bet is on the compression spring (though I refered to it as spool spring, which is probably incorrect) - because upon recieving this reel, the symtoms were exactly like those I've seen in several Daiwa Saltiga LD reels, Shimano Talica's etc - bad or broken spool bearings. So I figured new ones would eliminate the problem. It didn't.

The compression spring was one of the components that were under a huge stress from one of the bearings being rusted to the spool shaft, so yeah.. I'm thinking the same thing, a new compression spring could be the way to go. I'm also gonna double check every component with the schematic, as the owner thinks that this reel has seen previous service somewhere.