daiwa saltiga LD 50 - negative report

[Robert Janssen]

Haha, hmm yeah... there is a certain truth to that; can't deny it. Sorry.

[steelfish]

i was tempted to go after it with metal putty.  what's it called?   

JB Weld, or Devcon.

Silly perhaps, but this is not the only reel that uses a similar arrangement and has caused similar forum postings.

so, what would be the best way to try a DIY fix with JB weld or something similar?

the owner didnt wanted to fix the reel because of the cost of the new right side plate.
so, I can try anything on it to make a new hex for the Cam even if I totally destroy the sideplate   

PS: not much used saltigas LD on the market for sale

[sabaman1]

This type of damage was probably due to the user or other adjusting the drag setting while the reel lever is engaged beyond its max drag setting then throwing the lever further forward into full or what is called max drag. Lever drags should never be adjusted while the lever is engaged.  Always put into free spool when adjusting.

[oldmanjoe]

i was tempted to go after it with metal putty.  what's it called? 

JB Weld, or Devcon.

Silly perhaps, but this is not the only reel that uses a similar arrangement and has caused similar forum postings.

so, what would be the best way to try a DIY fix with JB weld or something similar?

the owner didnt wanted to fix the reel because of the cost of the new right side plate.
so, I can try anything on it to make a new hex for the Cam even if I totally destroy the sideplate   

PS: not much used saltigas LD on the market for sale

It may be possible to use hexagon tube stock .  You may able to use it as a form for the JB weld , use it external , fill in and remove before fully cured .  Or find the size that fit in the cam and file the bad post sides , so you have a brass lined post .

https://ksmetals.com/collections/hexagonal-tubing?srsltid=AfmBOormuCtBvBdfAq9jjaRhyUckvrSowJs60Gxt_NRs2n6sQAcA2R6B

https://www.mcmaster.com/products/hex-stock/

[steelfish]

It may be possible to use hexagon tube stock .  You may able to use it as a form for the JB weld , use it external , fill in and remove before fully cured .  Or find the size that fit in the cam and file the bad post sides , so you have a brass lined post .

hmm  that sounds like even I can try it out.


I was gonna search for some screwdriver hex drive that fits the CAM and cut it to install it on the sideplate just like Mike (MHC) did it on this thread https://alantani.com/index.php/topic,26480.msg301290.html#msg301290,  but I had/have hard time thinking on how to secure the new metal hex post to the sideplate.

It may be possible to use hexagon tube stock Or find the size that fit in the cam and file the bad post sides , so you have a brass lined post .

https://ksmetals.com/collections/hexagonal-tubing?srsltid=AfmBOormuCtBvBdfAq9jjaRhyUckvrSowJs60Gxt_NRs2n6sQAcA2R6B

https://www.mcmaster.com/products/hex-stock/

cool idea. thanks Joe, I need to think what option seems more "doable" with my lack of skills 

[jurelometer]

It may be possible to use hexagon tube stock .  You may able to use it as a form for the JB weld , use it external , fill in and remove before fully cured .  Or find the size that fit in the cam and file the bad post sides , so you have a brass lined post .

hmm  that sounds like even I can try it out.


I was gonna search for some screwdriver hex drive that fits the CAM and cut it to install it on the sideplate just like Mike (MHC) did it on this thread https://alantani.com/index.php/topic,26480.msg301290.html#msg301290,  but I had/have hard time thinking on how to secure the new metal hex post to the sideplate.

It may be possible to use hexagon tube stock Or find the size that fit in the cam and file the bad post sides , so you have a brass lined post .

https://ksmetals.com/collections/hexagonal-tubing?srsltid=AfmBOormuCtBvBdfAq9jjaRhyUckvrSowJs60Gxt_NRs2n6sQAcA2R6B

https://www.mcmaster.com/products/hex-stock/

cool idea. thanks Joe, I need to think what option seems more "doable" with my lack of skills 

I looked at a photo of the sideplate online.  It looks like there is not much meat to file down on that riser to allow you to sleeve it. Don't want to have the whole thing shear off.

If you want to do the sleeve approach, there is another way IF there is room to widen the hex hole on that top cam part. 

1. Buy a stainless standoff with a large enough OD that there is room to widen the existing hole to fit over the damaged riser without removing too much riser material.

2. File out the six sides on the hex hole on that top cam part until it snugly fits the hex standoff. I think it has to be able to slide a bit so that the preset knob will work.

3. Widen the hole in the standoff so that it slides over the riser. Easiy enough to drill out, as you can use the existing hole as a pilot. Go slow, push fairly hard and use some oil.  Stainless work hardens if the bit is just rubbing, so you always have to be  cutting.

4. Now you could epoxy the standoff on the riser, but silver soldering (like they do to braze rings on jigs) might be a better option.

Dunno for sure if it would work, but this is how I would tackle it with limited access to equipment. Especially if the other option is tossing the reel.

-J

[steelfish]

I looked at a photo of the sideplate online.  It looks like there is not much meat to file down on that riser to allow you to sleeve it. Don't want to have the whole thing shear off.

If you want to do the sleeve approach, there is another way IF there is room to widen the hex hole on that top cam part. 
-J

hey amigo, this is the actual reel, seems that the new owner (a local charter deckhand) didnt knew much about how to properly use a leverdrag reel, the pinion bearing of course was toasted from using the drag much higher than the capability of the reel and probably he "liked" to adjust the drag while the drag was activated and fighting a fish, or just maybe thats just because of the normal use from a deckhand and considering the reel is being used 4-5 times per week thats an average of 200-250 days per year, I wouldnt never reach that kind of use on any of my reels even in 10 years (yeah I know, I need to fish more)   

as you guys can see, the post still have some of the original square form but the edges of the corners are rounded now so, with some pressure you can move the CAM along with the lever as it happens in Alan's video on the 1st post of the thread.

Dave is right, not much meat on the post to file down.

[jurelometer]

If you get real lucky and found some thin wall hex tubing (preferably stainless, or at least steel) where the ID fits pretty tight the existing flats on the hex riser, or close to it, it would take less filing on the hex hole in that top piece.  Sort of between my and Joe's ideas, but you will have to get lucky on finding some stock.

Using brass or a soft aluminum alloy is going to wear faster than the original

My previous suggestion allows you to control the ID, but will require more filing on the hole on that top piece.

Another question - is the original fit pretty loose?  That could also be part of the problem. That part has to slide up and down on the riser so you can adjust the drag, but also not rotate. so the clearance can be a bit tricky

Another trick might be to do something clever with shims.  A USD $6.00 feeler gauge set gets you a whole set of stainless shim sizes.  Depending on how good you or someone you know is with thin metal bending (especially good to find somebody who makes jewelry) you might be able to make 1-3 shims that are sort of like doing the hex tubing thing.  Silver solder to the existing riser (a hobby jeweler should know how to do this).  you could even solder up your own hex tube.

Hard to know if this is a good idea without the parts in front of me, but thought that I might toss it out there.

On a side note:  Even though we are always told this, I never understood why it is "bad" to adjust the preset knob when not in freespool on lever drags.  I don't see how it damages anything.  I understand that using the preset knob to preset the drag range is a best practice, but what breaks stuff is the amount of clamping load, regardless of whether it came from turning the lever or twisting the preset knob.  Probably worth another thread to discuss at some point.

-J

[sabaman1]

Alex maybe after you clean the area up real good you could line up the cam and use some flat shims to slide between the small gap also put some grease to help prevent further corrosion. In both instances the reels in your photos and the original video the reels look as though they were never cleaned properly after use and serviced. Just fished hard and put away. As we all no sometimes people come to us expecting miracles after the reels have been abused.Corrosion reely tears up aluminum when not cared for.

[jurelometer]

Alex maybe after you clean the area up real good you could line up the cam and use some flat shims to slide between the small gap also put some grease to help prevent further corrosion. In both instances the reels in your photos and the original video the reels look as though they were never cleaned properly after use and serviced. Just fished hard and put away. As we all no sometimes people come to us expecting miracles after the reels have been abused.Corrosion reely tears up aluminum when not cared for.

I think the part above it (is it the cam?) needs to slide up and down on the hex riser to adjust the preset, so any shimming has to take this into accounnt.  Just can't wedge a shim in.

While corrosion doesn't help, I agree with Alan that the root cause here is bad design.  That hex riser has to resist the twisting load of the drag lever which can be significant.  And since the fit cannot be tight to accomodate changing the preset, wear is inevitable. If the original fit is loose, it will be even worse.

This is a pretty obvious design flaw IMHO.  And all a company has to do is have a meeting where some unrelated respected engineers and experienced users (fishermen) go over a phyisical prototype of the original design and discuss "where is this reel going to fail first?"  Repeat until you are proud of what you are shipping. And only then send it into field testing...

-J

[steelfish]

In both instances the reels in your photos and the original video the reels look as though they were never cleaned properly after use and serviced. Just fished hard and put away. As we all no sometimes people come to us expecting miracles after the reels have been abused.Corrosion reely tears up aluminum when not cared for.

the reel per-se its not that bad of corrosion, I think they USED the "old school" technique of submerging the reels on a bucket of fresh water and turn the handle while the reel is underwater, the rest of the reel looks in a real good shape, but I found water inside the spool, the shaft had marks of corrosion and those bearings still had water on them (all bearings were corroded of course), so, probably that excess of fresh water got trapped and affected the tons of tiny parts of the lever mechanism because thats the only part of the reel that had aluminium corrosion, check the next pics and see how the rest of the reel is shiny.

again thanks for your ideas of try to use flat shims

Another trick might be to do something clever with shims.  A USD $6.00 feeler gauge set gets you a whole set of stainless shim sizes.  Depending on how good you or someone you know is with thin metal bending (especially good to find somebody who makes jewelry) you might be able to make 1-3 shims that are sort of like doing the hex tubing thing.  Silver solder to the existing riser (a hobby jeweler should know how to do this).  you could even solder up your own hex tube.

hmm I know a local jeweler , hes a young guy that maybe is willing to help into solder the shims to the stock hex post to adjust the play with the CAM or maybe just adding silver solder where the corners are rounded and form a new hex flat corners with the dremel bits.

whatever he might charge for that, it would be better and cheaper than spending $195 + tax + shipping for a new sideplate 

IMO the design flaw its the super tiny size of the hex post for the lever drag mechanism, most of the LD reels also have that same hex tube as part of the sideplate and also made of aluminum but on another reels the hex post/tube is 2x bigger so, in this case bigger=stronger just check the same hex tube that is on the Shimano talica 16 which is almost same size than this Saltiga 50 LD (picture with the reel of the gold handle)

the rest of the pics are the Saltiga LD50

[oldmanjoe]

the cam is hard stainless steel.  the hex in the inside is soft aluminum and is part of the side plate. 

So I have to ask , is the hex aluminum .  If it is , silver solder is not going to work . Silver solder does not stick to aluminum .  I do understand that we are looking for a work around , so as a simple fix can be achieved .  With out real tools and some machining , JB weld is your friend .   If you do a build up , spray food oil "Pam "will work or silicone spray for a release from a outside form of the hex .   

[jurelometer]

Haven't tried silver solder to aluminum myself, just read that it worked.  A good idea to verify this.  One option is to solder together a hex tube, in which case you are just soldering the stainless to itself. Silver solder is amazingly strong stuff. 

I don't think JB Weld has the shear strength. and that other part will be sliding back and for across it.  I am not optimistic about a JB Weld only solution.  But what do I know?  Just an opinion FWIIW.

-J

[jurelometer]

the cam is hard stainless steel.  the hex in the inside is soft aluminum and is part of the side plate. 

So I have to ask , is the hex aluminum .  If it is , silver solder is not going to work . Silver solder does not stick to aluminum .  I do understand that we are looking for a work around , so as a simple fix can be achieved .  With out real tools and some machining , JB weld is your friend .   If you do a build up , spray food oil "Pam "will work or silicone spray for a release from a outside form of the hex .   

Haven't tried silver solder to aluminum myself, just read that it worked.  A good idea to verify this.  One option is to solder together a hex tube, in which case you are just soldering the stainless to itself. Silver solder is amazingly strong stuff. 

I don't think JB Weld has the shear strength. and that other part will be sliding back and for across it.  I am not optimistic about a JB Weld only solution.  But what do I know?  Just an opinion FWIIW.

-J

I tried silver soldering a stainless nut to some 6061 aluminum and it got rejected by the aluminum.  If it is possible, it might require some special flux.  Read some more and found that the old timers would tin the stainless and then braze with aluminum rod- probably too much for this part. So score one for Joe on this point. 

-J