Jigmaster questions again

[mo65]

   Good points Sid. There are different characteristics to wave washers and spring washers...although they both do the same job. Trevor made a point that his Senators ramped up slower than his Jigmasters. I tested his theory last night and sure enough...the smoothest...slowest ramp up I found was my 113H. Now I'm not even sure if this configuration is correct, but it has a large spring washer on top of the last keyed washer, and a thin wave washer between the star and tophat. I wonder also if Trevor could tame his Jiggy's ramp up with a delrin washer on top, like Sal did on his Senators.

[Bryan Young]

At the current configuration, you really cannot compare the ramp rate of the drags between the 5-stack Jigmaster and the 5-stack 113H drag system.   The Jigmaster uses very thin Carbontex drag washers where the 113H uses HT-100 drag washers.  The HT-100 drag washers are more loosely weaved with a lot of peaks and valleys built into the drag washer which makes it more cushiony at lower drag settings.  Now, if you were to compare my 5-stack Jigmaster with my 7-stack 113H drag systems, the ramp rate would be similar because of the lack of compression properties.

Likewise, if you were to install Penn's 3-stack HT-100 drag system back into the jigmaster, the ramp rate should be somewhat comparable to the 5-stack 113H HT-100 drag system...keep in mind, trying to keep things equal, the gear sleeve should be from the 505/506 (fine thread) instead of the 500/501 (course thread).

[Reel 224]

It seems no one is addressing that TongassFisher said "A full turn on the drag star" I think he would be much better off with 1/4 to 1/2 turns on the star thus easing off on the adjustments, It's not to say that he would be better of with the fine thread gear-sleeve, but if spending more money is of concern. Then why not try backing off on cranking the star a full turn? In my honest opinion.

Joe 

[TongassFisher]

Thanks for the response Joe, I used the full turn as a way to reference how quickly the drag increases on my 500 and 501. I got the 501 off of another member in trade but I believe that it has bryans drag upgrade as well although I have yet to break it down and look.

Bryans explanation about the density of the material and the peaks and valleys used to make the drag discs totally makes sense. Quite a difference between bryans upgrade drag kit and the penn HT 100s.

So today a $26 jigmaster 500 came in the mail I snagged off of eBay. It has the maroon sideplates and as far as I know is completely stock. Out of curiosity I tested this eBay 500 and the drag comes on much slower than bryans kit.  

This is splitting hairs and is not a huge deal. Going back to your post Joe, I agree, just make smaller incramental changes when applying drag, no big!

If given the option I would like to figure out how to slow down the quickness the drag ramps up with subtle movement of the star. For me the more 113h like I can make the drag feel the better. I'll say it again, this is splitting hairs.

With all that being said, I'm pestering Bryan to ship me another one of his 500 drag upgrade kits because I like them so much. When it comes its going into a full SS black pearl kit with the double dog bridge and fine threaded stainless sleeve. Still need a few more parts to finish this build off. When I've got it all complete, I'll report back to everyone on this post the  difference in feel between the coarse and fine threaded sleeves if any.

Thanks everyone,


Trevor

[Reel 224]

Trevor: I've built a 501 with the exact up grades that you mentioned in you first post W/standard threaded SS gear sleeve and 5.1 SS gears DD Bridge from black pearl and also Bryan's 5+1 drag system. I find that to be smooth and you can turn the drag down 1-1-1/2 turns to get to full drag. I think in this case it is the mater of starting to build a system from scratch, you know what the base is and there is no guess work. Thinking or guessing could end-up costing money,time and frustration, in my honest opinion.


Joe

P.S-Trevor; I went back to check how many turns it took me to come to full drag, and I have to apologize for telling you the wrong information. When I started to feel some drag resistance I counted the turns from there and it was 1-1/2 to full. The five turns was from backing off to the crank arm. Sorry for the misinformation.     

[Keta]

If given the option I would like to figure out how to slow down the quickness the drag ramps up with subtle movement of the star.

If there is room replacing the wavy washer with a thin Bellville spring washer would help.

[Rancanfish]

Now I'm confused Lee.  I was under the impression the wavy washer was another term for a Bellville washer.

I'm mistaken about lots of stuff though. I learn everyday around here.

[Keta]

Both are spring washers, a Bellville is cone shaped.

[Gfish]

Me too. Lotsa terms used in the posts on this forum have me doin a "double take" re-read sos I can understand. For example, "handle" is used to describe a knob or a handle, depending on the post. In this thread, I've seen "spring", "wavy"and "belleville" used, are they all diffrent? Standardizing the terms by defining 'em would help, but how to do that?...
Anyway, interesting stuff here, as I have a 1/2 tanked JM which includes factory steel gears and the ss-coarse thread sleeve.
Gfish
P.S. Thanks Lee, that clears up some a that washer confusion.

[Keta]

The wavy and Bellville washers are both spring washers.

https://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-disc-springs/=16ztkuo

https://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-disc-springs/=16ztl83

Wavy washer


"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"

[mo65]

Me too. Lotsa terms used in the posts on this forum have me doin a "double take" re-read sos I can understand. For example, "handle" is used to describe a knob or a handle, depending on the post. In this thread, I've seen "spring", "wavy"and "belleville" used, are they all diffrent? Standardizing the terms by defining 'em would help, but how to do that?...
Anyway, interesting stuff here, as I have a 1/2 tanked JM which includes factory steel gears and the ss-coarse thread sleeve.
Gfish

   I know what ya mean Gfish...I have had to sift through the lingo myself at times. I thought about this after Sal and I had used differing terms for the wave washer. He used the term of spring washer...I used the term of wave washer. And the Belleville can be used here too, as it performs the same task...but is just shaped differently. I guess Trevor summed it up best...we're splitting hairs. Still, never hesitate to ask questions, no question is too silly if it helps a friend.

P.S. As I was typing this, Lee made it clearer, the wave washer and the belleville are both spring washers.

[Bryan Young]

not to muddy up the water, but I provide Bellville spring washers in my kits because I like the way the force is applied to the circumference of the drag stack even before full compression where wavy washers do not...then again, at full drag, both of these spring washers are fully compressed (flat) which makes the difference between the two a moot point.

[Keta]

Bellville washers tend to last longer too.  

I tend to use Bellville washers on 5-200 size gears and up.  I'm working on a 60 now but there is not much room in the current drag stack for a Bellville.

[sdlehr]

The wavy and Bellville washers are both spring washers.

https://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-disc-springs/=16ztkuo

https://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-disc-springs/=16ztl83

Wavy washer

Those washers both look like wavy washers to me, just the one on the right is black.

Sid

"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"

[Keta]

They are both wavy washers.