Penn Main Gear Talk

[mo65]

   Something Penn excelled at was using just a few main gears to produce a wide variety of size and speed in their reels. How did they accomplish that? With the pinion gear! Different size pinions gave a single size main a lot of options. I checked Mystic's info, and just the #5-60 main gear alone was used in 15 models! 5 different pinions were used in those 15 models, for a speed range of 2.3:1 up to 3.3:1. They did this by keeping their gears' pitch the same. This is why you'll see a #13-85 pinion used with either a #5-60 main(Longbeach 60) or a #5-500 main(Peer 309). These pics show how the #13-85 and #13-140 pinions varied in size, and even the spool shaft openings varied, but they retained the same pitch.

[RowdyW]

  I've been comparing the #5-60 gear to the #5-66 gear. Although these 2 gears are the same diameter, that's just about where the similarity ends. The photo below shows how much more robust the teeth are on the #5-66. It's also deeper, allowing more drag washers inside the gear. The #5-66 will allow a stock thickness 5-stack to be used, where fitting that arrangement into the #5-60 requires one of Bryan Young's 5-stack kits using very thin washers.
  Moving along to the pinions used with these two gears, it doesn't take long to see which is the beefier design. The downfall of this mass though is lost speed. The tiny #13-140 pinion combined with the increased tooth count of the #5-60 main makes it the faster set up. We're seeing a trade off here...speed vs. strength...but how much faster? Or how much stronger?
  I performed some low tech experiments, but real world experiments, with real world results. I converted the speed concern from gear ratios to "inches per turn"...each turn of the handle would draw in a length of line measured in inches. In the pic are gear sets from a black plate Senator 3/0(on left) and a Squidder 140.(on right) The Senator's set develops 2.25:1 while the Squidder's is rated at 3.3:1. The Senator brought in 12-13 inches per turn, while the Squidder cranked up 22-23 inches per turn. Around 10 inches more per turn.
  That difference may be insignificant for some of my fishing, making the #5-66 something I could benefit from. I've always liked the #5-60's speed/power for catfishing, but I'm giving the #5-66 a whirl. Only time will tell if I'll like it better. The reduction in speed can be offset by added muscle for big fish.

Hey Mo try this if you have a spare 113 4/0 Senator laying around. Get a 66 bridge, 66 pinion gear, & 66 yoke and slip them into a 113 plate with a 113 main gear. The gear sleeve will only be offset about .017". That will up the gear ratio a little & still give a strong set up with a 5 washer setup. (Grouper Special)         Rudy

[Decker]

  I've been comparing the #5-60 gear to the #5-66 gear. Although these 2 gears are the same diameter, that's just about where the similarity ends. The photo below shows how much more robust the teeth are on the #5-66. It's also deeper, allowing more drag washers inside the gear. The #5-66 will allow a stock thickness 5-stack to be used, where fitting that arrangement into the #5-60 requires one of Bryan Young's 5-stack kits using very thin washers.
  Moving along to the pinions used with these two gears, it doesn't take long to see which is the beefier design. The downfall of this mass though is lost speed. The tiny #13-140 pinion combined with the increased tooth count of the #5-60 main makes it the faster set up. We're seeing a trade off here...speed vs. strength...but how much faster? Or how much stronger?
  I performed some low tech experiments, but real world experiments, with real world results. I converted the speed concern from gear ratios to "inches per turn"...each turn of the handle would draw in a length of line measured in inches. In the pic are gear sets from a black plate Senator 3/0(on left) and a Squidder 140.(on right) The Senator's set develops 2.25:1 while the Squidder's is rated at 3.3:1. The Senator brought in 12-13 inches per turn, while the Squidder cranked up 22-23 inches per turn. Around 10 inches more per turn.
  That difference may be insignificant for some of my fishing, making the #5-66 something I could benefit from. I've always liked the #5-60's speed/power for catfishing, but I'm giving the #5-66 a whirl. Only time will tell if I'll like it better. The reduction in speed can be offset by added muscle for big fish.

Hey Mo try this if you have a spare 113 4/0 Senator laying around. Get a 66 bridge, 66 pinion gear, & 66 yoke and slip them into a 113 plate with a 113 main gear. The gear sleeve will only be offset about .017". That will up the gear ratio a little & still give a strong set up with a 5 washer setup. (Grouper Special)         Rudy

Sal had come up with a 5-149 main & 13-113H pinion combo that I have been wanting to try too.

Nice write up, Mo.  Good to know the inches-per-turn numbers.

[RowdyW]

The main difference between the two is cost to gain .2 (2.6) in the gear ratio over the Grouper Special (2.4). Sal's needs a special drag washer set. I built one of Sal's with an Wide Accurate frame with Sal's help when he first came out with it. (Sal double dogged it for me.) I also have 4 Grouper Specials in narrow, standard, & wide widths. I really can't feel any difference when fishing them.           Rudy

[Alto Mare]

That particular combination with the 149 main and 113h pinion is to me the smoothest reel,
A few others feel the same way, but of course not everyone🙂

Sal

[Decker]

Interesting, Rudy, about the 113 main (with 13-49 pinion and 66 yoke & bridge) having more room for OEM drag washers.  Hope I got that right.

Mo, sorry for the hijack  Good thread.

[mo65]

Mo, sorry for the hijack  Good thread.

   No hijack there Joe...it's all good gear talk. The more you guys chat the more I learn!

[RowdyW]

Interesting, Rudy, about the 113 main (with 13-49 pinion and 66 yoke & bridge) having more room for OEM drag washers.  Hope I got that right.

Mo, sorry for the hijack  Good thread.

Decker, the 113 gear can be loaded with 6-60 drag washers for a 5 stack instead of the 6-113 drag washers which are a 3 stack. Pinion is from a longbeach 66, which is the same in the 66, 67, & 68. Sal's setup uses a 49 main & 113H pinion & needs a special custom drag set from Bryan. 113 & 113H are 2 different reels.

[Decker]

Decker, the 113 gear can be loaded with 6-60 drag washers for a 5 stack instead of the 6-113 drag washers which are a 3 stack.

Thanks, Rudy!  Found a thread for this that specs it all out :   https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=4500.msg34527#msg34527

[mo65]

  I'm surprised you don't remember the 5-stack mod for the #5-66 gear Joe. I think we talked about it when you hooked me up with the stand and spool for this "Frankendream".  

[sharkman]

Is there a link on the post for 149 main and 113 pinion

[Decker]

  I'm surprised you don't remember the 5-stack mod for the #5-66 gear Joe. I think we talked about it when you hooked me up with the stand and spool for this "Frankendream".  

Thanks for the reminder, Mo.  ...Another thing waiting for me to find a round-tuit    I want to do a 111 pig-puller.

That's a helluva catfish winch!

P.S. That DAM Quick 330 you did for me is my go-to saltwater spinner. 

[Decker]

Is there a link on the post for 149 main and 113 pinion

Sharkman, in the vein of "give a man a fish," versus "teach a man to fish," here is how to find that...  In Google Search, enter this: "site:alantani.com 5-149 13-113H Sal"   and search.   The "site:alantani.com" part limits the search to this site.   Try that... like shooting fish in a barrel.    

[sharkman]

Thanks Decker, I found it.

[mo65]

That DAM Quick 330 you did for me is my go-to saltwater spinner. 

   That's great Joe! I'm glad it's working so well.