Penn senator 113h with new drags but still 13# drag max

[mo65]

The stock drag with HT-100's should be 22lbs.

      Thanks Keith. I wasn't sure what should be expected from the HT-100 kit. My only 113H has the Smooth Drag kit plus Bryan's under gear set which gives me 6 working surfaces. It gave me a finger tight 25lbs. at top of the spool.
      Alex, did you get to look at the drag stack again yet? The suspense is killin' me! I love these "lets figure it out"
posts, I always learn something.

   

[Alto Mare]

Alex, if everything is in order check the star, sometimes it doesn't hold pressure when crank down. Try another, see if you get better numbers. The spring washer or belleville (cupped washer) also go bad at times, try adifferent ones, depending on which plate you have.
Don't worry about the groves on the gear not going all the way down, that would never be an issue. By the time you place the first CF washer the second keyed washer and the third CF washer you'll be well over 3mm in height. Groves not going all the way down need to be looked at Only when Bryan's kits are used.

I usually get 22lb with the standard wahers as you have, maybe a couple of pounds more if cranked really tight.

Sal

[steelfish]

       Alex, did you get to look at the drag stack again yet? The suspense is killin' me! I love these "lets figure it out" posts, I always learn something. [/color]

still working on my normal job Mo, dont get impatient amigo haha.
pacific time here in Baja so still normal working hours, Im about to leave the office in few minutes, then my normal comute to home of 20 minutes, play with the kids, have dinner and then at 9pm start my switch for  reel & rod repair.

I need to finish to install some guides on a rod Im rebuilding and later will check the 113h reel again.

[alantani]

inside the main gear are slots that run top to bottom to accommodate the "slotted" metal washers. any chance you  have an old main gear where the slots only run 2/3rd of the way down?

[steelfish]

well, on these days I made many different configurations on the drag stack of this reel but still not 100% happy, that way I havent updated this thread these days.

I checked the drag stack and eared metal washers looking for something wrong, I actually changed one of the thin metal washers from the new HT-100 kit for a thicker metal washer of the old 3-drag, installed the thicker metal washer just after the first carbon washer on the bottom of the main gear, the idea was to cover the space where the main gear have no slots and dont run into this problem, seems that worked really good in theory, on top of the drag stack I actually add a second metal washer before the presure washer at the end/top as spacer to give something more material to the star to tighten.

the handle feels pretty free when you turn it so its nothing on the drag stack binding or reachin the sideplate, the spool spins smooth and freely in free-spool, if I tighten the star manually with all my strenght I can only reach 14#  , Im not a strong guy so this might the be the culprit hahahaha.
I actually using the nice scale that my man Riverrat sent me to check everything correctly, with the reel attached to a rod, I made a loop at the end of the line and pull with the scale attached to my garden fence,  the line star peeling at 14# smoothly when giving line, but there is no way I can tighten the reel more manually to reach 2-3 # more

* with my Baja and same rod, I reached 20# easily with no much effort on the star, pretty sure I can reach more If I put some more effort to tighten it.

* with a chinese 113h clone (with 3 stack of 112h HT-100 washers) I reached 13# with no problemo.

so, I used a wrench to help me to tighten the star but checking to no locking the drag up
this way I could reach 16#, then tighten a bit more and got 18# and then 20# drag with still giving some line out, so drag wasnt locked up.

ideas? 
am I too weak for tighten this reel?
are the 3 metal washers at the top a no-no?  any other configuration to add space to the star to dont bottoming up on the side plate

used another metal star as Sal recommended but the result was the same 14# using my hands to tighten it
once again, the main gear is brand new as well as the HT-100 kit, took as many cals grase as I could using a old towel.

Just to double check, I checked the drag on my tiburon frame 113h reel which is using a Keta octagon adapter and could reach 18# easily tightening the star with my hands, pretty sure can reach 20# to 22# If I want to.

[Alto Mare]

Alex show a pic of the complete assembly with the spacer and the star. Also lay them out on the bench and take a pic of the layout with everything you're using.

[Gfish]

Real interesting problem. I'mna guess it's a lack a flatness/smothness on the metal washers. Alex, have you tried a CF washer only, under the main gear?
Gfish

[Shark Hunter]

The stack has to be out of order.
It should be pulling more drag.
Lay the stack out like Sal said, and let us see it.
Something is amuck here.
We want to figure this out.

[steelfish]

Ok guys, thanks por the interest

This is the current drag stack layout
Also a pic ir the star and spacer

As you can see Im  using a CF washer under the main gear

[Shark Hunter]

Your keyed and flat metal washes are out of sequence my man.
Start from the bottom left to right.
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/6-113HSP.aspx



"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"

[Rothmar2]

Yoh need to swap the 2nd keyed washer (from the base of gear) with the first of the eared washers.

ie. you have laid the first four metal washers    KKEE
K = keyed washer
E = eared washer

Swap to KEKE, then whatever you have on top and see how you go
Make sure there is a CF washer between each metal.

[Shark Hunter]

Put a carbon fiber in the bottom of the gear, Then a metal washer with no ears on it.
Then another carbon fiber and an eared metal washer with the tabs on it, then alternate this sequence.
You have your two metal eared washers on top of the stack. This is the issue. The bottom is just spinning.
Hence, your lack of drag.

[steelfish]

I will do the KEKE config but if I not wrong that was my 1st configuration then I though what Alan said, the tabs on the 1st eared washer might be reaching the bottom of the slot on the main gear so, I switched to KKEE configuration
I will go back to keke and let you know on Sunday

[alantani]

yeah,  the metal washers are out of sequence.  go keyed, slotted, keyed, slotted, keyed, belleville. 

[Keta]

I occasionaly will have to put a thin eared  washer (.020" or .035") with the ears ground off on the bottom of the stack then CF, keyed, CF, eared and on.  This will make room so the ears on the bottom eared washer do not bottom out in the groves in the gear.