Finicky drag on a 113H

Caranx · September 21, 2017, 01:31:32 PM

Was wondering if anybody could give me some insight on my problem.
I have a 113H with outside access drags, 4:1 steel gear, new carbontex washers with shimano drag grease, and a delrin washer under.
The star has very little play before it tightens up quickly.
It only takes about a 1/4 turn before it goes into lock up. There's plenty of free play when I back it out. that's about the whole drag range that I have.
Any suggestions as how to spread it out?
Thank you

sdlehr · September 21, 2017, 02:10:57 PM

Is your next-to-last keyed metal washer riding high on the edge of the gear instead of having the ears fall into the slots on the main gear? That would do it...

Sid

Gfish · September 21, 2017, 02:15:37 PM

Was gonna suggest somethin, but "there's plenty of free play when I back it out", makes it a mystery with no clues to me. How many washers in the drag?
Gfish

Tiddlerbasher · September 21, 2017, 02:19:45 PM

Beat me to it Sid

Also check for a spring washer on top of the stack - it helps to make the drag adjustment more gradual.
A photo of your drag washer order would help.

RowdyW · September 21, 2017, 02:21:16 PM

If you are using a 18-970 bellville washer on top of the drag stack instead try using a new (not used) 8-349 wavy washer. That softens the drag adjustment somewhat. Rudy

foakes · September 21, 2017, 03:09:32 PM

All of the shared remedies above are good, and to do first --

When you check the drag stack ears, bellville washer, extra washer in stack, etc. -- and it should be better -- then replace the spacer with one slightly shorter by 1/16" to 1/8" -- or squarely grind a little off one end -- then clean up any burrs until smooth inside and out.

With your previous adjustments, this last one with the spacer will give your star more travel and adjustment.

Sometimes I also replace the star with one that has a recessed under portion -- if it will adapt and fit -- this is also a useful remedy.

Not sure if these are available for a 113H size reel. I know it is useful on the smaller reels such as jigs, squids, 209, LBs, 1/0, 2/0, etc.

Let us know how you do.

Best,

Fred

Alto Mare · September 21, 2017, 04:06:37 PM

Check if the washers are in the correct order. On the easy access drag system , there are usually 2 keyed washers on top, if you remove one it might help, but first make sure the washers are in the correct order.
Here is a pic of the two different plates on the 113H:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=3083.msg27360#msg27360

Sal

JRD · September 21, 2017, 04:48:00 PM

One more. Try a wavy washer on top of the top hat and under the star.

Caranx · September 22, 2017, 04:11:30 AM

I have 5 drag washers in the stack, the last eared washer is level with the gear. There was only one keyed washer under the top hat.
I added a second to it.
I took out the delrin washer that I had between the star and the tension washer.
There is one and 1/4 turns of play on the star now.
It looks good. After tightening down on the drag, it feels better. I'll have to test it further.
So far so good though.
Thanks for all you suggestions and help!
Will let you all know the outcome.

Caranx · September 24, 2017, 05:45:04 AM

After testing the drag a couple of different ways, it seems to be working normal now.
I was wondering if I should take out that second keyed washer and test again.
Maybe that delrin washer that I had between the tension washer and the star was the culprit.
I may even try doubling up on the tension washers to see if there is an effect too.

RowdyW · September 24, 2017, 08:19:13 AM

If you can back off the drags to almost no drag then I would leave the extra keyed washer in there. Usually in a new complete drag stack the top keyed washer is thicker then the others. It's a matter of putting both thick & thin combonation in or either the thick or the thin washer only. There is no one way only. Each reel has to be fitted individually.

Alto Mare · September 24, 2017, 10:17:57 AM

Quote from: Caranx on September 24, 2017, 05:45:04 AM
After testing the drag a couple of different ways, it seems to be working normal now.
I was wondering if I should take out that second keyed washer and test again.
Maybe that delrin washer that I had between the tension washer and the star was the culprit.
I may even try doubling up on the tension washers to see if there is an effect too.

Rudy is correct, anything above the lip of the main gear is just a spacer. you could make adjustments there to your liking, as long as you keep the clearance with the plate.
If I had to choose between the second keyed washer and the Delrin washer on top, I would go with the Delrin and remove the second keyed washer. That second keyed washer, as mentioned above, is only used as a spacer.
This will give you the ability to turn the star with much less effort when it starts to get tight.
Drags should also feel a little smoother and you should also gain a little more travel with the star.
Try it for yourself and see how it feels to you.

Best,
Sal

Caranx · September 28, 2017, 01:34:16 AM

I think when I had the delrin washer between the star and the tension washer, it made it a little too easy to tighten. That may be th reason it was locking up so easily.
From loose to full lock up within a 1/4 turn of the star. I would think it would be the other way around, acting like a micro tensioner instead.
I did notice that turning the star was smoother.