How much temsion to appply to braid when spooling a baitcaster

Gfish · October 20, 2017, 03:36:58 PM

So, relative to jurelometer's first post, which'ed be more important for spoolin braid: drag tension or line cross-over? One reason I ask is, castin or even trollin, I always got that 50 - 100yds. a line out I'm fishin that isn't gonna get reeled in with 5 - 10lbs. a drag unless I'm bringin in a good size fish,and the best I can do is apply a small amount a tension while tryin to do the cross-over thing.
The other reason is, when I'm spoolin new braid onto a reel from the start, it's difficult to focus on both, 'cause I'm doin it by hand(no line winder).

I do use a Penn HLW 6/0 for drag tension. Seems like the cross-over winding technique would be a good way to keep the line from diggin in ta the spool.
Gfish

Tiddlerbasher · October 20, 2017, 03:50:44 PM

Loose braid over tight braid is a fact of fishing life, it is going to happen at some time. But when you get tight braid over loose braid (ie poorly spooled) - as in playing a decent fish - you will get dig in problems - been there done that.
After each fishing trip I re-spool my line to make sure everything is good and tight. Varying the crossover pattern has never been a solution for me.
At the end of the day whatever works for you.

alantani · October 20, 2017, 04:36:00 PM

what you are trying to avoid is a big fish that takes the spool down to half height, meaning 2/3rds of your line is out, then having the line dig into the side of the spool, lock up and then have the line break off. it is at that 2/3rds mark that guys get into trouble. your drag pressure has doubled because your spool height has been cut in half. anything less than that and you should be ok. hardly anyone goes out for tuna in southern california with a reel that is "properly" rigged. they usually get by ok because the fish are not that big. 40 pound fish on 40# mono will not get you into trouble. hook into a 120 pounder on a light rig and it's another matter. that's what happened to tony's friend and he broke the fish off in exactly this way.

so this does happen, but only when you are chasing big fish that will take a blistering 300 yard run. stripers? no way. salmon or rockfish? nope? even grouper! they dive for structure and just break you off. sailfish? not sure, never caught one, but maybe. mostly, we are talking about tuna, and particularly when you hook up on line that is too light and a fish that is too big.

so what to do after a trip, particularly if you know the line is loose? you have to repack it. if you don't you will probably be ok, but you are taking a chance!

Jim Dempsey · October 20, 2017, 05:00:26 PM

I keep hearing about line spoolers, but have always used a large screwdriver in a vise. Checking on the price of some of what I would imagine are spoolers with adjustable tension; I'm not ready to drop a couple of hundred bucks for something I'll seldom use. My son and I use the big guns 2-3 times a year for pier fishing in Corpus. It looks like it's going to be a matter of trial and error. All seem like valid points; but it seems like there's no "one size fits all".

Thanks for all of the replies and opinions. As with most fishing techniques; what works for one, doesn't necessarily work for another. Perhaps I'm missing something. Remember; I'm still pretty new at all of this.

Thanks, guys.

alantani · October 20, 2017, 05:12:50 PM

i think it's only a problem if you are chasing fish that weigh in at double the weight of your braid.

SoCalAngler · October 20, 2017, 05:19:15 PM

Spectra/ braided line has been fished for around 15 years here on the west coast of the USA and is very common. I personally have been using it for 12 or more years on my reels and I worked for a couple of years in a tackle shop that gave away free braid spooling on it's moderate to high end reels. I have spooled 100's if not over a thousand reels with braided line since I started using it.

When at the tackle shop if there was any issue with the way we spooled a reel or made our connections you can bet we would hear about it.

Braided lines will only compact so much so adding a ton of drag when spooling will only give you or the machine doing the spooling a work out and not compact the line any more onto the spool of the reel.

For smaller reels using 25 lb topshots or less, around 5-7 lbs is all that's needed. For reels using topshots of 60 lbs or less 8-10 lbs of drag when spooling and big game reels using 100-200 braid around 10-12 lbs of drag is all that's needed IMO.

Some have done testing here, we sure did at the shop and we found the same thing. When the braided line reaches it's maximum compression no matter how much more drag you use when spooling it will not help in either getting more yards of braid onto the spool or the compactness of the braid (I.E. digging into it's self).

As far as the braid getting loose when fishing sure that will happen to the top part that is either cast or or the line let out when fishing, but normally this is only a fraction of the line on a reel and as long as the under layers of braid are compact the line should not dig into it's self. Now if you catch a fish the upper layers will compact again when reeling the fish. If anyone has seen braid dig into it's self and get jammed they will notice this only happens the braid really digs deep onto the spool and does and occur with the upper part of the line being loose from regular fishing.

FatTuna · October 20, 2017, 05:31:23 PM

This is what it looks like when you don't spool them tight enough. The backing will come back looking wavy. With mono, you don't need it nearly as tight. If the reel ends up locking up because of knotting, you can have some serious problems. For example, a rod snap in half. If you do stand up and your locked into a harness.........

oc1 · October 20, 2017, 08:35:47 PM

I used to fret about this after reading the horror stories. But, I'm fishing very light tackle and less than five pounds of drag or only three pounds of thumb pressure. No more than 120 yards of line. Over time I've become lax and just hold the line between two fingers when loading. Never had the line slip on the spool or dig in enough to create a problem. What is aggravating is after catching a fish the top 60 to 100 yards is packed tighter than normal. The next three or five casts are going to come up short because line has dug in and grabs a little as it comes off the spool. Once that top forty or so yards has been retrieved without a lot of tension it gets back to normal.

The thing that really surprised me in the Jerry Brown information that dayOne posted is that Jerry Brown says dramatic cross winding is detrimental because it leaves voids on the spool. I though that with more dramatic cross winding the line is less likely to dig in. He says no.
-steve

Crow · October 20, 2017, 09:24:06 PM

This has been an interesting topic for me, as I, too, have always "loaded" my reels by tensioning the line through a "gloved hand" . As yet, anything caught on a conventional reel hasn't been big enough to cause ANY problems....but, hopefully, this winter , that may change ! Although, considering the water depth we fish......not that much line is involved, so, I suppose as long as the "bottom wraps" are tight, that's all that really matters ?!

handi2 · October 20, 2017, 10:20:34 PM

I see loose braid all the time in the shop. Some of it was put on by a local tackle shop. I use 10lbs on the larger reels. You surely wouldn't spool a small reel with 10lbs. 10lbs is a lot of drag.

I have the Triangle HD140 as mentioned. I set the drag with a scale before and during spooling. The Daiwa J Braid does dig in coming from the spool at this setting. At least it did with me on 2 service spools of 65lb.

Jerry Brown. No problem

Tiddlerbasher · October 20, 2017, 11:33:47 PM

Keith - that is the reason I re-spool shop bought braid so I know how tight it is. JB braid seems to be ok, from what I've read - never tried it (can't afford it this side of the pond

) I don't use <30lb braid so have no input to spooling it. When it comes to light line I only use mono (well co-polymer really).

SoCalAngler · October 21, 2017, 02:32:25 PM

It was not uncommon on bulk spools from the manufacture to see the line dig in to it's self when spooling up reels. The bulk spools are not wound at tight as the drag we used for the reels. Rarely did we have the bulk spools get jammed because of this but it did happen once in a while and from different manufactures, even JB. All of the manufactures were very good at replacing the loose and jammed bulk spools with new ones. Like I said jamming a bulk spool didn't happen often but I have seen them dig into it's self somewhat and was pretty common, so personally I would not worry about that.

Jim Dempsey · October 21, 2017, 05:18:29 PM

I've decided to build my own spooler. I have a rough idea how to build it, but; essentially on the same principal as a drag system on a reel. Not terribly scientific; but I'm going to use a set of drag washers and metal washers with a spring (or cupped washers) and a wing nut. I can set the amount of drag using my digital scale. From what I've read in this post; I think I can get pretty close to the ballpark - and certainly more consistent - than the old finger pressure method. I'll make a few adapters for the mounting bolt depending on the factory spool. From the varying opinions I've read here and every where else; there doesn't seem to be an exact science, so I'll just experiment with what works best for my applications.

Heading out of town next week, so it'll be a while, but I'll post some photos when I'm done.

Tiddlerbasher · October 21, 2017, 05:37:02 PM

When playing with your spooler drag setup I have 2 suggestions:
1 - Imitate a multi disc setup ala Senator - approx 5 cf and 5 ss discs keyed to a shaft etc - I tried it but found that it was a pita to engineer.
2 - Imitate a leverdrag reel - a much easier engineering solution imho - this was the option I chose for my spooler. And it's still working fine 3 yrs down the line

jurelometer · October 21, 2017, 07:10:33 PM

Regarding J-braid and the factory spool not being packed under tension: Not picking on J-braid. I like the stuff. My point was that the manufacturers are not packing the line tight on purpose, even though there will be some grief from customers filling reels. I am speculating that they are concerned about creep - the line permanently stretching and deforming when kept under load for extend periods of time. Creep is a known issue with gel spun polyethylene fibers, and it will weaken the line.

When you fill the reel with GSP under heavy tension, you may not be stretching the line much more, but the extra load on the line could still be present due to the static friction on the adjacent wraps. In theory, this should weaken the line over time. Is it a big enough deal to cause a problem? I don't know.

In terms of how much crossover/crosswind is too much: What causes binding is loose wraps and a gap wider than the line diameter. When taking line under heavy drag, the line gets pulled into the gap, and then tightens the loose wraps now above it forming a knot of sorts. If you get too aggressive on the crossover, you end up with a wrap that whose length is much greater than the current spool circumference. If the load is relieved and this wrap can shift a little, it becomes a loose wrap. I think this is what the JB paper was getting at. But stacking all the wraps parallel to each other introduces the potential for deep gaps. Loose wraps= bad, gaps = bad. The JB paper states that you will still be getting enough crossover by attempting to lay each wrap parallel. I know that by using around a 3-4x line diameter spacing (on CASTING reels without levelwind) for the line involved in the cast, I get longer casts with fewer bird nests than if I try to lay the wraps parallel. This includes my yellowtail reels, where the drag is set as high as the reel will allow. I have't had any serious binding problems.

Lots of crossover/crosswind will decrease the amount of line you can fit in a spool.

Regarding filling reels without line winders: I can easily get up to about 8 lbs tension by having a extra pair of hands press some thick flaps of leather against the filler spool. Makes it a two-person job.