grinding/vibration after servicing

[jigmaster flash]

hi all, hoping you can solve a problem for me....

i was recently given a Shimano 4500 to service, it was in a terrible state, so i stripped and rebuilt - problem is although it is now free as a bird there is vibration and a slight grinding feeling... feels like the main gear/pinion gear is worn or not meshed properly but the teeth etc are all fine so i'm a bit at a loss how to fix.....?

the main gear does seem a little loose on re-assembly but im sure i haven't lost a washer or anything...
I did use a lot of wd40 and 3-in-1 oil to flush/clean out all the crap - could this be connected to the problem?

any ideas welcomed!

many thanks in anticipation
Marty
(UK)

[redsetta]

G'day and welcome JF.
I assume you're referring to a BTR4500?
Did you replace the bearings or just clean 'em?
If the latter, the pinion bearing may be had it - which can become more apparent after cleaning...
Let us know how you get on.
Good luck, Justin

[jigmaster flash]

Justin sorry for being ambiguous - yes its a BTR4500.

I cleaned the two handle shaft bearings, and on checking them carefully with a small peice of dowel they seem ok. I removed the main shaft and both main bodygear cogs and cleaned,checked them etc and all seems fine there.
When reeling it feels slightly out of balance and loose, with a slight "wobble" and dry geary noise. ( if that makes sense!)

i've checked and double checked and all components are there, as i haven't removed the rotor yet i wonder if the wd40 has travelled up and dried out the gear/rotor bearing?

anything else i can check? (plan on moving to the rotor next, once ive found the bail return spring that pinged off yesterday and is somewhere on a 20ft square deep pile carpet! grrr!)

[Alto Mare]

Hello Marty, I'm not a shimano guy but maybe this is worth mentioning. When I experience a similar problem on my Penn's I check the bearings first, I then check the main shaft. About the main, it is not easy to determine if it's ok, I usually install a new one to check. If all is fine, I would move on to the oscillating gear and its components, in your case part #'s 0491-0492 and 0493.
Sal

[jigmaster flash]

ok, the main rotor bearing assembly was caked in crud and grit, i have stripped and cleaned everything, the oscillating gear clip looks a little out of shape so ive carefully nipped up to the correct shape and am right now about to rebuild.....

thanks for the help guys, i'll report back later on the outcome!

[jigmaster flash]

well not too successful - still feels loose/wobbly feel to the retrieve with a slight "dry" noise.

and that bloody bail trip spring cant be found despite me and the wife on our knees crawling around for 2 hours 

everything has been cleaned, dried, checked and assembled twice now so i've hit a wall.... beer and football for a break and hopefully when i return to the reel it will miracoulously be ok 

[Alto Mare]

It's always a good idea to walk away from it for a little whie. I realize that you've checked the main shaft, do you happen to have another just to test it?
I used to lose springs and screws as well,  now have extras...just in case.

[jigmaster flash]

swapped out the shaft with another and its definately not  that   

the only good thing to come out of this so far is i can now strip and rebuild the complete reel in 15 mins !

(Pity it doesn't run properly when i have though, and also a pity it is minus a bail trip spring thats hiding somewhere in my living room  )

[Alto Mare]

I don't know what else to tell you Marty, could be any of those parts. Having the reel in hand would help. Keep trying, there isn't much left for you to check. I'm sure you'll get it to work. Practice makes perfect  .

[jigmaster flash]

sal i've given up mate  

theres only so much a man can take!

not looking forward to to explaining to my buddy that his reel is immaculately shiny and looks like new, but runs worse than before and is minus a bail trip!  

(something in my head still tells me that flushing it heavily at day one with wd40 to get all the dry crud and grease to move is somehow to blame - ive stripped and rebuilt quite a few spinning reels and never done his before and never had this problem before)

[Alto Mare]

We don't give up here Marty, get a fresh start in the morning.

[alantani]

shimano spinner, huh.....    yeah, figures.  i keep on telling these guys not go to there.  bunch of hard heads!  

ok, grinding.  gotta be one of two things.  first is bearings.  easy to check.  there are alot of bearings in shimano spinners and you have to check them all.  then there are gears.  they may look fine, but they have to be perfect or they will rumble.  your's are probably just not perfect.  i'm going to say gears and suggest a new set.  

[jigmaster flash]

alan i'm sort of glad you said that, after fully stripping and rebuilding 5 times in the last day I just KNOW there must be a mechanical problem and its not an assembly issue!

as you know, these baitrunners aint the easiest things to keep stripping down and rebuilding and the shaft is not to blame, nor the bearings (ive checked them ALL 5 times!) so i'm wondering if the crud had packed out the gear slack over the years (actually helping disguise the wear) and when ive cleaned it up the slack is now very evident - it actually feels like the drive gear cog is a bit loose/wobbly to be honest but i cant physically see any problem on it or the shaft gear.

not worth the time or money to replace, the reel is a good 15 years old and was coming to end of its life anyway.
Better off buying one of the Shimano B series baitrunners whilst theres still a few left on the shelf and getting another 15 years of hard use for $120.
(and i can give up hunting for that bloody bail trip spring   )

[alantani]

you've brought up a good point.  a good cleaning can unmask the roughness of an old bearing.  same with gears.  they only go together one way.  it's most probably that the gears had damage that was not appreciated until the old grease was cleaned off.

[Glos]

he degreased the bearings with wd 40 and now they are all dry, but he cant tell the diference by trying and listening in hands