Super tuned and upgraded vintage DAM Quick 330N bailess reel

[Milan S]

Thanks!
The cork pad is also coated with a thin layer of graphite and brake grease. I used a soft graphite pencil and Cals grease. Everything is incredibly smooth and with a consistent braking characteristic.
The large diameter of the cork washer allows the development of high braking torque. This further enables high braking forces, which I don't really need (4kg max for me).
The thickness of the cork pad is not an obstacle to adjusting the line lay!
Line lay is fine-tuned with a screws of the roller arm!The roller arm has a channel that allows it to move back and forth. There is a photo on page 2 of this post where you can see it.
I did an even better job on the 331N, but I wouldn't want to duplicate the posts. Maybe one day when the weather allows ... A real beauty reel!

The only thing I would do now on the 330N and 331N is to achieve silent braking on the rotor. It requires good planning and a little more experimentation. Of course, I do not intend to insert one-way bearing. I'll try something else ...

[oc1]

You do excellent work Milan.

If the drag knob has a range of eight revolutions and each thread is about a millimeter, would that be about eight millimeters of compression in the cork and leather?  It sounds like too much?

-steve

[Milan S]

No leather, no compression. Just presure. Only cork and Teflon washers, no leather for friction.
The large surface of the cork does not allow compaction.
When I get a chance, I'll check the number of full laps. It is possible that I counted myself in semicircles, but I know that there are many turns.
Six full laps for sure.

[Swami805]

For silent braking maybe a dog like in older ambassadeur baitcast reels, they are silent. No idea if it's feasible, above my pay grade

[Wompus Cat]

Just saw this thread and am intrigued to say the least .
Great Mods
Where did you get  or what is the half Bail off of . Or Did Dam make a Half Bail ?
I am just getting into these Dam Reels  and appreciate the quality and engineering incorporated in them.

[Wompus Cat]

After removing the photo bucket crap and blowing up the image I can see better . Excuse my lack of knowledge on these versions .
Did you remove and shape the area marked in this photo or does the Reel come this way ? Thanks

[oldmanjoe]

  He made all of the half bail and use a bigger line roller bearing  , also cut the smile on the rotor for line clearance.
 I still see all his pictures with out problems so  i will re post his picture to see if it come clear.
  That`s strange the re post has the p b water mark !

[Wompus Cat]

Like this ?

[oc1]

No leather, no compression. Just presure.

Not to be argumentative or denigrate a really great project, but I still don't get it.  The space between drag washers of all types approaches zero whether there is a little pressure or a lot of pressure.  Cork can compress a lot, even carbontex can compress a little over time.  The usual way to provide more range (revolutions) on the drag is to use some sort of spring washer like a wavy washer or Belleville.
-s

[philaroman]

how deep is that grey(?) flanged part under the knob?
looks like the perfect place for a short, heavy coil spring
even better than any sheet-metal spring washer, IMO

I'm guessing you like cork best, specifically because it's so springy
you don't need a metal spring, BUT a metal spring of some kind
would allow you to use a more durable material
w/ same results & more range at the high end

[oldmanjoe]

New photos of drag system:





About details of second picture:
1. Here you can see on the front of the spool two Teflon and one leather washer between them.
2. A leather washer was inserted to achieve linear compressive force from the front side of spool drag.
3. The first washer to the spool knob is also Teflon, due to the smooth reaching of the brake.

About details of first picture:
1. The complete spool setup is seen here (there will be a more detailed photo).

2. The most important part is the cork washer and the stainless steel plate cork washer.
3. The cork is 2.5mm thick, metal plate about 2mm.
4. Cork is coated with graphite powder (graphite pencil with high softness) and CalS grease.
5. The top of the spool shows the first ball bearing installed.

After looking at this again ,i noticed that there is no keyed washer it the stack .   How does it hold a setting after a long pull ?
   My thoughts are that the stack is more like a spacer than a drag . The cork is doing all the work , going by were the teflons are . 
   There is a spring in the nut assembly knob  for tension .   That well is about .380 deep .
    This is my approach to have a test spool with cork and carbon fiber drags  and can change the cork ring diameter to test different drag ratio`s 
   

[Milan S]

First of all, I would like to thank from the bottom of my heart my colleagues who worked on the photos and the answers!

Oldmanjoe, good answers!!! Thanks!

1. Metal washer is keyd washer. It may not be visible in the photo, but if it is large enough, you will see that the inner opening is not round.

2. The dark leather pad between the two white Teflons takes on part of the deformation. There is no friction between the leather pad and the metal parts of spool.

3. "There is a spring in the nut assembly knob  for tension." This is the answer regarding pressure regulation.The spring packed inside is responsible for the gradual increase in pressure.

4. The cork is very long lasting. It lasts much longer than carbontex.

5. For diferent drag ratio it is best to experiment with increasing and decreasing the inner diameter of the cork ring. Larger hole diameter = less braking force.  

6. In order for compression to occur on a cork pad, enormous pressure is required because it has a large surface area. If I remember correctly, diameter is 53-55 mm. P=Fk/S, (P=pressure on cork, Fk=force from spring in knob, S=area of cork).

7. Also, the cork lies, it is trapped by the inner diameter of the spool, which does not allow its movement, nor deformation. There is probably a very small change in cork thickness due to the action of pressure.This deformation enables better adhesion of cork granules to metal surfaces. This fit increases the coefficient of friction. Increasing friction increases braking torque (force).

8. Since it is a large diameter at which the creation of braking torque is achieved, not even a large force is needed by spring knob. M = Fb * r, (M=bracking torque, Fb=force on the braid, r= half of diametar of the spool).

9. Start up inertia is near zero! I need and i love that!

10. Temperature disipation from cork is on the aluminium spool and on the very biiiiig surface lower stainless steel plate!

11. Because of my bad english and my explanation something about cork drag fly reels, start up inertia, temperature disipation and compresion:
  https://midcurrent.com/gear/brake-jobs/   VERY IMPORTANT REVIEW!!!
  http://www.bighorntroutshop.com/more-than-you-want-to-know-about-fly-reels/

12. Half bail, I made from sheet of stainless steel with my hand and simple tools. The bearing cups for the SiC line roller were made by a friend on a lathe according to my instructions and measurements.

13. I am an electrical engineer by profession, but I have been working for years as a director of a huge company. I don't think I'm an engineer in my profession anymore. Mechanics is my love! Fishing is my second love!  

Please, don't mind my bad English and maybe scanty explanations. In practice this works perfectly!

[Milan S]

I would like to add that no matter what type of brake it is (cork or carbotex or something else), it is very important to relieve the pressure after fishing. Cork thus returns to its original state, and also has a positive effect on carbonex and the leather, for example.

I also have state of the art reels like Certate and Stradic FL. I always relieve them, my experience is that this cork brake is better (for my needs) than on the mentioned rolls (carbontex washers).

Their only advantage is that they are much lighter and put braid line lay visualy better! 330N and 331N are much more reliable and long lasting. I had no problems with wind knots with 330N and 331N. Line lay is 3mm under spool border and that is inough!

The appearance of the lens look line lay is not crucial. It is important that there are no gaps in the upper and lower zone of the spool, between spool border and braid..

[Swami805]

Very impressed with what you've done here and your english is just fine. Thanks for posting

[oldmanjoe]

          Your English and explanations are fine , it stimulates the thinking process  .
  1. Metal washer is keyd washer. It may not be visible in the photo, but if it is large enough, you will see that the inner opening is not round.      Thanks for clearing that up.

9. Start up inertia is near zero! I need and i love that!      That is what i am looking for and working at !!