First International overhaul completed - notes and questions on the 50tw

[williewiskers]

I got a 30T and a 50tw at the same time, decent aesthetic condition. Im going to talk about the 50tw here, because the line to spool and test the 30T hasnt arrived yet.

50tw functioned normally when I received it. Disassembled, de-greased and re-greased. Used ReelX where Alan recommends Reel was MISSING spool sleeve Part No, 13B and spool bushing Part No. 173 (these were also missing from the 30T, both were from the same owner). I ordered the missing parts from Mystic. Everything went together nice with some Cal's grease. I spooled it with 800yds of 120# braid and 100yds of 100# mono. I experimented with the spring washer configuration and settled on the following configuration made of 4x HEAVY springs  ((  ))  ) and one LIGHT - to makeup the lost thickness. From this I was able to achieve the following drag numbers at full spool...

Drag was measured through rod guides, under rod tension - 5-6" 120# Kunnan Hot Rail. These are first motion drag numbers, consistent pull numbers were 2-3#'s higher....

Sunset - 47#
Strike - 30#
First engagement - 5#
Free - very slight resistance (not measurable on my scale. scale fell under its own gravity to the ground fast)

There is a linear ramp up in drag to strike position. Im happy with the drag curve in this regard.


I am puzzled in two regards. The first is that the main gear was "grinding" on the spool bushing Part No. 173. I removed it at once and cleaned the shavings up. I have attached a picture. I cant honestly see what function this serves besides getting ground by the main gear - can anyone explain and tell me if I need this?

The second regard is I am unsure "what" material drag washers I have. I have done CF upgrades on dozens of my other reels, but these Internationals are different. Both the 50tw and 30t have the SAME type of material, but the 30T has the 1-piece bonded drag /drag plate / driver plate - which SHOULD means its the "latest"  configuration. What confuses me is that the face of the drag material is hard like ceramic, despite the fact that I can SEE the hatched CF pattern. It does not have the fabric-feel of HT-100 washers like those I would put in a Senator, but as far as I can tell from SBT's website only CF washers were manufactured in the 1-piece drag plate / driver configuration. The 50tw has the SAME material as the 30t, but the drag material is bonded to a drag plate, with a detachable driver plate.

Do "dura-drags" look like HT-100 visually with the customary cross-hatching, but feel hard like ceramic when you tap on them them? I cleaned, Cal's greased them and reinstalled installed them. The 30t's drags are smooth and consistent, but the 50tw's are a "little" lumpy.

I would really appreciate anyone's experience on anything related to anything im doing here.


Best regards,
The Wiskers

[Robert Janssen]

Hmm, yeah... I have one of those (50TW) but not in front of me at the moment. It did not come with a spool sleeve, as this innovation hadn't really taken hold yet in the mid 1990s when this reel was made. Judging by the revised schematic at Mystic, it appears that the reels were later upgraded to include them. So, everything normal there.

It has been some years since i had it apart, but i don't recall there being a spool bushing in there either.

About the drags, that all sounds normal too. The two-piece subassembly with the disc / driver was the way they were made for years. There were some aftermarket discs with alternative friction materials being sold, but they did not look like HT-100. They were never made with the Dura-Drag material though.

Who knows, maybe someone resurfaced your drag disc with something else? The newer family of Dura-Drag materials is harder, but not like ceramic.

   .

[williewiskers]

Oh, so your saying the spool sleeve and bushing weren't OEM when these reels were originally manufactured? That would make sense being the person whom's dad owned them was a serious tackle guy. I was having a really hard time believing he just "removed" functional parts from the reel, although the bushing grinding the main gear doesnt seem functional.

Ive just never seen dura-drag material or ht-100 bonded to a metal plate, im having a hard time concluding that's what's here. Attached is a stock image of precisely what the drag plate looks like in my 50tw, although this 3rd/4th gen plate isnt listed as a 50tw part (only a 50, 50w part), although this may be an oversight on the SBT site. I found another oversight earlier this week with the drag cover gasket not being associated with the 50tw, they already fixed that.

[williewiskers]

Also, for comparison - this is precisely what the 1-peice drag disk / driver plate looks like from the 30t. Both reels have precisely the same "type" of drag material bonded to them. They look and feel exactly the same, but nothing like ht-100 drag washers like I would find in a Senator. I cant see how this could be anything other than CF, despite the difference in feel.

[Robert Janssen]

Yup. Everything you have posted so far is a-ok.

[williewiskers]

So could the "lump" in the 50tw's drag be caused alone by it being a two piece drag plate / driver plate despite the drag plate being in otherwise mint condition and greased? Would theoretically changing to the current 1-piece replacement 17DN-50 smooth out the lump in the drag? Or is there anything else that could cause the lumpiness?

[handi2]

I finished 8 of the 50TW reels last week. The later models had spool sleeves and torque head screws. The older ones do not have the sleeve and the screws are combination screws.

The first picture shows HT-100 replacement that screws to the gold drag plate. The one piece Dura Drag is a good replacement. If the reel is very old the pinion gear has to be changed to use the Dura Drag. After doing hundreds of them I haven't found one that the Dura Drag didn't drop right in.

The spool bushing can be left out if you leave the bearing sleeve out.

Keith

[williewiskers]

Thanks Keith,

I have the sleeve in and the bushing out right now. I cant see what the bushing was doing other than interfering with the main gear. The two spool bearings are opposed by the sleeve, which is held from moving outward by the spring washers pushing on the pinion resting on the cam bearing. I literally cannot see this bushing having any effect anywhere - except to reduce clearance between the click plate and main gear. Can you explain it function? I dont know why its not working in my reel, but if I REALLY DO need it ill likely need to do some fancy shimming of some kind which is beyond my current capability.

The Wiskers