DIY bucktail wrapping

[Gfish]

Ya never know sometimes what'll get bit and what won't.
Once I tied a dry Golden Stone fly using some hair I found, thinking it was hollow-bodied moose hair used for high floating flies. It weren't. The beginning times... but I knew how' ta cast and I was killing it one day at the start of the seasonal hatch. Expert lookin guy's were coming over to see what I was using. I believe the mostly sub-merged fly just looked different to those educated(very picky) trout, compared to high-floating typical stuff they had gotten used to. Perhaps a drowned fly looked safer to them. Stoners crawl out onto vegetation as nymphs, molt to adults, then fly out over the water to mate. You can even sometimes see their eggs hit the water. Trout really gain weight during that hatch. I got a big'n that was so full he couldn't hardly fight.

Good tips from John and Dave, Joe. I like how the leader knot is the head of that fly. Dave forgot to mention the "throat"—a short version of the wing on the opposite side. You can hide the hook point/bend with it. Add that, and some sorta eye imitation(I like glue-on doll eyes), and you get a vice grip like Dave mentioned, some a John's nail polish, then sit in front a the TV and enjoy.
Agree with the sparse thing, seems to make the imitation look/act more natural. I'd use about 1/3 of your wing hair and make a
"Throat" with it. Spots or stripes can be cheaply added on with permanent markers, look at the tentacles on Steve's buggy lookin criters("Rock Hoppers").

[oc1]

I don't use a vice.  Just hold it.  But, it takes 15-20 minutes to make one jig.

I used to tie with rod wrapping thread but now use old 20# Spectra line.  The nylon wrapping thread is good because you can put some stretch in it.  The spectra is good because you can pull as hard as you want to cinch it down.  

If you look hard at a buck's tail on-line and consider the source you can figure out if it is a warm season deer or cold season deer.  Cold climate deer have longer and thicker hair.  I use olive green dyed or natural plus a little flash of some type and 100# leader matrial for the weed (rock) guards.  Every one seems to be a little bit different.

[jurelometer]

Never heard of a beard on a fly.  Thought it was called a throat.  We have to be careful about offending those trout fly purists

Like Steve, all my ties end up  a little bit different.  This is because they are all works of art, each one an original!

-J

[thorhammer]

Dave brings up a good point, as usual. There are jigs, then there are jigs. A quarter ounce flats wobbler with a 1/0 hook will do fine in a rotary vise, but I wouldn't want to put a deep-water grouper jig in one with a 10/0 4X heavy hook and start cranking down the thread tension. Also- good call on the mini vise grips. I've used that too, pin long side in vise and pop the hook in. Plenty of ways to skin this cat- that's why this forum is so good.

As to the subject of how much dressing: I've seen guys using jigs I wouldn't bother throwing away to catch fish. I think it depends a lot on the situation, like water clarity, feeding aggression, current, color, species. Blitzing bluefish in an inlet on falling tide with roiled brown river water coming by aren't gonna be as picky as a lone bonefish on a still flat in two feet of gin. They eat or the next one does. It either matches profile of something they want to eat, or not. There's the question of buoyancy. A lot of hair may look good but not let you drop down in a current without going up in weight, which may detract from the action. I ALWAYS have a trailer worm or grub on, and sometimes a bait strip, depending. Your style of fishing comes into play as well- long-range surfcasting or casting into three feet of water from a boat? Jigging in 300 feet of water? etc., etc. Obviously I have an affinity for them, maybe because of their effectiveness on a lot of things or maybe because made be me. Whichever, doesnt matter lol.

There was an old adage where a lot of anglers were polled for their pick of one lure to take anywhere for anything- the answer was a white bucktail jig. Maybe not for brookies or marlin, but you get the idea.

[gstours]

  Oar, you can make an adapter ,  flat piece of metal to put in your fly vice and take a small KantTwist clamp and clamp the larger j hooks to the flat metal and hold the hook and rapp away.    Personally a rotating vice is worth having and can be found pretty cheap if you arent proud?
   I have made several rotating vices with the vice grip and its about as low cost as you can get.  Currently no picture will be available.
        For larger hooks using a typical fly vice a "notch can be filed in the jaws to hold the hooks better still working ok for pinching the smaller hooks.   Another option?

[JasonGotaProblem]

So I made another fly. I used some lead wire folded over to weigh down the non-pointy side. I used a mix of pale green pro wrap, silver polyester, red polyester, and some stiff white synthetic hair I got at the fly shop as the outer layer. I made the stiff stuff a bit shorter than the silver/green, and i may trim a bit shorter still. The red is always longest.

If luck holds I'll go throw it today and see if anything likes it.

[thorhammer]

Never tied one on a worm hook before but I see an oportunity- I bet googly eyes from the Wallyworld craft section would glue to that 90 degree offset really well! hot glue or five minute epoxy maybe, or a dab of clear gorilla glue may be the right consistancy to mold itself around the shank and join the two eyes. worth a shot.

[JasonGotaProblem]

Never tied one on a worm hook before but I see an oportunity- I bet googly eyes from the Wallyworld craft section would glue to that 90 degree offset really well! hot glue or five minute epoxy maybe, or a dab of clear gorilla glue may be the right consistancy to mold itself around the shank and join the two eyes. worth a shot.

Interesting idea, I may need to try that. I'd be worried the air in the googly eyes would create buoyancy concerns.

[gstours]

 :)Another idea 💡,  if you want eyes and some added weight to your fly,  maybe tie on some dumbbell eyes
   Typical of the Clouser minnow pattern?    Pretty easy.   
       For my small stream I've made some with tiny copper wire a silicone tiny split shot crimped and simple twist on the hook shank.   These could be wrapped with thread before the main body and cemented with the other feathers.   Just saying.    Good luck 👍 🍀.     Enjoy every day.

[oldmanjoe]

     Interesting design with a worm hook .  It looks to me that it may want to swim upside down or do a lot of rolling on a twitch retrieve. 

[JasonGotaProblem]

     Interesting design with a worm hook .  It looks to me that it may want to swim upside down or do a lot of rolling on a twitch retrieve. 

That appeared to be the case on my first attempt, using these same hooks. That's why I'm now trying with the added lead to counteract that. Will it work? Will it be enough? We'll see.

I did the worm hook intentionally, thinking the bend would make it more likely to stay where I put it. Still making it up as i go.

[jurelometer]

Lots of flies tied on worm hooks, but 60 degree jig hooks are more popular.  They are all intended to ride point up.  The jig hooks get a lot more corner hook sets, which is nice for catch and release, and also less likely for a leader to get chewed through.  These type of hooks tend to bend open more, but that may not be a problem, depending on what you are fishing for.  I think this was covered earlier in the thread.

The fly tying conventional wisdom is that most or all of the wing/tail material should be on the top of the shank (facing the bend).  Even if the material is a bit heavier than water,  the increased resistance on the drop will make it tend to face upward.  With the right amount of the right type of material, weight on the bottom of the shank  is not always necessary, but a more fishable fly benefits from a little bit of weight.  With enough weight, the material location will not matter much.  Tied away from the bend (as Jason did) does have the advantage of fouling less.

A few degrees of wobble can be effective, as long as it doesn't do a full spin.  With some exceptions, conventional wisdom is that a streamer fly should always "track straight" (zero wobble).  Lure guys usually think of tracking straight as a lure that does not tend to swim more off to one side, and find wobble to be a beneficial feature  .  The more wobbly a fly (or lure), the lower the top speed before spinning out.

Me , I like a bit of wobble in a slow fly, but it is sort of a special purpose deal.


We talked about adding clouser style eyes  and the effect on positioning front/back  earlier in this thread.  Googly eyes add buoyancy.  They used to be quite popular, but are not used much nowadays.  They do add a bulk to the fly head without adding a lot of weight, which can be desirable  in situations requiring a fly that pushes more water  but does not sink too fast.
 
For Jason's fly, I would personally try the  blind version first.  This lack of bulk is what makes this fly-jig different than normal lures.  Less is more.


-J

[jurelometer]

A couple more tricks:

1. Anti-foul internal tail.

One of my favorite tricks for a non fouling (material wrapping around the bend)  "tail":  Wrap a small amount of stiff material around the shank. This should be tied toward the back of the hook, but not as far back as the bend.  Trim this material so that it extends about half a hook length beyond the bend.   Now tie in your normal tail in front of the stiff  tail  you just tied, so that it surrounds the stiff tail and extends beyond it to the desired length.  This can actually improve the action in addition to decreasing fouling.   


2.  Tail weighting.   

Wrap a few  coils of lead  wire around a chunk of stiff mono.  Tie the mono to the shank of the fly so that the lead tail extends a bit past the bend. Now tie a normal streamer/bucktail fly (not too long) with a bit of bulk in the head, but little or no weight.  Use a stop/start retrieve.  On the stop, the extra momentum keeps the back moving fast as the front slows down,  so the back ends up swinging out to the side just like a car sliding out (AKA fishtailing  )

Deadly for fish that bite on the stop, but a pain in the a** to cast on a fly rod.   This style works nice on jig hooks.

If I have one sitting around somewhere, I will post a photo.

There have been times in Baja where I gave a spinner guy a fly and an egg sinker when flies were working better than lures, usually when school tuna were feeding on smaller stuff. But I think there is probably a better opportunity to use slightly weighted flies with a spinner and light braid for things like bass and snook - sort  a fly optimized for spinning.  I can't be the first person who has thought of this. [edit- actually Jason just thought of this too ]

Fun stuff.

-J

[JasonGotaProblem]

That's great info thank you.

This one definitely rides hook down. The weight didnt do it. I'll adjust.

[jurelometer]

Here is a step by step on  a somewhat  complex rear weighted fly tied on a jig hook, but the basic process can be used on something simpler.

https://www.saltwatersportsman.com/gallery/photo-galleries/2004/06/tying-lead-aZZ-mac/


But you have to replace the ZZ with "ss" in the link above.  Mr Tani does not allow naughty words on his site, even in URLs

Those Eagle claw 413 60 degree  jig hooks are not used for salt water fly tying much any more, as they are one of the worst for bending open.  They still work fine for lighter duty flies or for non heavy duty jigs.  I have a a couple hundred of these from size 4 to 2/0.  If anybody wants them (price= free), I will see if I can dig them up.

-J