Penn Battle II issues

[Jenx]

My Penn Battle II 2500 has started feeling really rough and "geary".

The first thing I checked, after opening it up, were the main gear and pinion gear. I didn't notice any damage to the teeth, and I figured maybe it was an issue with the bearings instead. So I took them all out, removed their seals, and soaked them in lighter fluid. Once dry they all seemed to spin just fine, so I packed them with grease and put them back in. Unfortunately this changed nothing and the reel was still very rough. Figuring I was wrong about the gears looking fine I decided to buy a new pinion gear, main gear, and crosswind gear. This still didn't fix the problem. If anything I'm starting to wonder if it's worse now.

Anyone have any suggestions on what might be the issue? Obviously the gears aren't the problem, so could I have been wrong about the bearings, or could something else be causing the issue? I don't have much experience servicing spinning reels, especially modern ones, so user error is a definite possibility.

Right now I have the rotor cup and side plate removed. I'm spinning the Pinion gear with my fingers to check and see if maybe it is out of alignment with the main gear, but their teeth appear to match up perfectly. Actually, all the gears feel smooth while turning the pinion with my fingers, but once I put the side plate back on and start turning the handle everything starts grinding again. Part of me wants to just toss this reel, while another part of me is just curious enough to want to solve the puzzle.

[nelz]

I would try adding (or removing) the shims around the main gear. It has made a world of difference on "geary" feeling spinners for me. Hmm, odd that it would start doing that without your having taken it apart though.

[Gfish]

I'd suspect ball bearing wear. Also, it's gotta AR roller bearing right? Can you access that?

[JasonGotaProblem]

Couple thoughts from a non expert, to be disregarded if it conflixts with something someone smarter says:
1. I've found some of these penns don't want the sideplates torqued down gorilla tight or the action feels grindy. Get em tight then back off a quarter turn. See if that helps.

2. Sand in an AR or in a bearing feels a lot like gear grinding. If you replaced the gears and still feel it, it's not the gears. Clean out your AR super well it's easy to get grit in there. Relube with a drop of oil never grease. If I was a betting man this is the one I'd put my money behind. Try to remove it as a unit and flush the F outta it with the lighter fluid you already mentioned having. Flush spin flush spin and I'll bet you'll feel a difference before reassembly.

3. Oil not grease in your bearings. TSI is best but most light oils will work fine. That will make them feel like/better than they did when fresh cleaned and still wet with lighter fluid.

4. Check your shims against the schematic. Mentioned last because others have covered it not because it's least important on the list.

[alantani]

it's usually a bad set of bearings before it's a bad set of gears.  i would replace the bearings anyway and see.

[Jenx]

Thank you everyone for the responses. I appreciate it.

I forgot to mention previously that I already took the AR apart and cleaned it. That isn't the problem.

I'm guessing I was most likely wrong in my assessment that the bearings were still good. Now I need to just look around for an inexpensive source to buy them. It's probably wise anyways for me to buy some extra bearings considering how hard I can be on my spinning reels.

Thanks again.

[JasonGotaProblem]

Get a caliper and buy by size. No need for "penn bearings" in the era of chinese made penns. Just shoot for stainless steel.

I'm betting if you re-flush the heck outta your bearings and use oil instead of grease you'll find a lot of the issue goes away. Did you pull the shields before flushing? If not you may not have gotten it all. Try that before buying new. Also make sure your spool shaft is spotlessly clean, as well as the inside of the pinion gear. A bit of grime in there has an incredible detrimental effect.

[Jenx]

Jason,

Yes. I removed the rubber shields on all the bearings before I gave them a long soak in lighter fluid. I also occasionally swirled the fluid around to help knock anything free.

I thinned out some grease with corrosion X, and applied that to the now unsealed bearings before reassembling the reel. However, you are the second person to mention I should be using oil instead of grease. I use this reel mostly for surf fishing and jetty/cliff fishing where it occasionally gets splashed. I was thinking a coating of grease would help protect the bearings better, but is this incorrect? I get with casting reels you want to use oil so your casting distance isn't impaired by gummy bearings, but are there additional benefits to using oil over grease on spinning reel bearings aside from a smoother feel to the reel?

This reminds me that I still have one of Alan's bearing packers that I need to play around with.

Lastly, for those of you who buy inexpensive SS bearing from china, are they all pretty much the same quality? Am I just looking for the best deal possible, or is there something else I should be keeping an eye out for?

Thanks again.

[Hardy Boy]

I just buy stainless bearings off of Alliexpress after Alan told me about it. I have never noticed a difference from most bearings I bought anywhere else except the price. How often do you see made in Japan high end bearings in a reel these days. Reels are not really high speed anyways. Keeping them oiled or greased is the most important thing in my opinion.


Cheers:

Todd

[JasonGotaProblem]

Generally oil is for better feel in a spinner. If they have rubber seals nothing should be getting in anyway. Grease is a holdover from when the slowing effect of grease kept early imprecise bearings from spinning faster than they could manage. But they will help keep gunk out. But so will a rubber seal.

I have noticed a difference between the $5 each EZO brand Japanese SS bearings compared to the cheapo Chinese ones, but it's nothing compared to the felt difference between that and good ceramics. But that's just me. Also cheap Chinese bearings feel better after a few days breaking in. But again maybe that's just me.

[nelz]

Hmm, odd that it would start doing that without your having taken it apart though.

I bought a Daiwa Sol spinner a while back, and it was kinda "geary" feeling. So, I re-arranged the shims and now it's the smoothest reel I own, as in, it feels totally "fluid" no gear teeth are felt at all.

I think after spinning reels break in, they may need some shim adjusting after a while.

You've already changed gears and done bearing maintenance, so IMHO those things are out. Grease vs. oil, irrelevant for your issue.

[jurelometer]

Generally oil is for better feel in a spinner. If they have rubber seals nothing should be getting in anyway. Grease is a holdover from when the slowing effect of grease kept early imprecise bearings from spinning faster than they could manage. But they will help keep gunk out. But so will a rubber seal.

I have noticed a difference between the $5 each EZO brand Japanese SS bearings compared to the cheapo Chinese ones, but it's nothing compared to the felt difference between that and good ceramics. But that's just me. Also cheap Chinese bearings feel better after a few days breaking in. But again maybe that's just me.

The seals keep grit out, nothing more,  They don't do a great job of keeping saltwater out or oil in.   Grease will do a much better job of keeping the protection and lubrication in place.  It is a much better choice over oils for "sealed"  or open bearings as long as the stiffness from the higher viscosity is not an issue.  It makes sense that spinners would tend to benefit more from lighter viscosity, because of all the mass that you have to spin and oscillate in order to retrieve line.

Fishing reels usually don't need much in terms of ball bearing performance compared to other machinery.   Many lever drag pinion bearings benefit from a higher axial load rating, because the drag forces the bearing out of alignment.  The tolerances on all fishing reels are not high enough that an ASTMA rating beyond 3 provides much benefit.   And an ASTMA ratings is a measure of tolerances, not quality.  There is more variability in random Chinese bearings, but it seems like many are up to the job for fishing reels.

Sometimes the perceived differences in bearings is a result of the lubrication as delivered.  To make a fair comparison, you need to clean and re-lubricate.

My $0.02,

-J

[Shark Hunter]

I use Battle II reels for surf fishing, but only the 8000 size.
They impress me for their price.
A few years back, I broke the rod on my smaller Surf rod on a Penn 5500.
I didn't have any other surf setup with me.
We only had big Senators geared up for dropping baits way out, but the Surf was way too rough for kayaking.
I went to Half Hitch Tackle and Bought a Battle II 8000 Combo for about 160 bucks.
Caught a Huge Bull red on the first cast with a Mullet.
Always have one with me from now on.
They can land a 30 lb fish in no time.
Been using it for years and service it after every trip with no issues thus far.