Mesh tape: a horror story

[Breadfan]

I use butcher string layed and wrap to the thickness you need. Take it off, lay epoxy, lay a layer, lay epoxy, etc until its back on and wet with epoxy. Slide reel seat on and done. A monolithic epoxy bushing. Never failed.

Eugene

Exactly the way I do it. The glue must penetrate all the way to the blank for it to be effective. It can be a little messy until you get the hang of it, but it works. I also use the Propaste, it stays put and it is made for rod building. I started with the five minute stuff and so far, I haven't had a failure but the paste epoxy is so much easier. I also Scotchbrite the blank and the inside of the reelseat.

[JasonGotaProblem]

Dave, I ended up doing the 5min and tape because that's what I had available and it's a known workable solution, not because I thought it a better option. And certainly not because I'm disregarding the value of the time you and others have put into educating me.

I am ordering some pc7 for next time. I'm gonna file it under "very highly recommended."

Devils advocate time though, if I may be so indulged. Say one is prepping both blank and inside of seat surfaces. And also very thoroughly covering the top and both sides of the masking tape dam and also filling in both the inner gap between the dams and the (very small) gap between the outside of the dams and the grips with more epoxy. how is water getting in?

[Breadfan]

Dave, I ended up doing the 5min and tape because that's what I had available and it's a known workable solution, not because I thought it a better option. And certainly not because I'm disregarding the value of the time you and others have put into educating me.

I am ordering some pc7 for next time. I'm gonna file it under "very highly recommended."

Devils advocate time though, if I may be so indulged. Say one is prepping both blank and inside of seat surfaces. And also very thoroughly covering the top and both sides of the masking tape dam and also filling in both the inner gap between the dams and the (very small) gap between the outside of the dams and the grips with more epoxy. how is water getting in?

If you're not using a paste type epoxy, your five minute epoxy is just sagging, creating gaps for water intrusion unless you turn it. The beauty of the paste is it stays put where you put it and sags very little unless you really gobb it on. I do use the paste and I do try to seal everything off but it does not always work out like that. The fall back is you are dependent on a good bond first and foremost and a little water will not hurt. Keeping water out of anything is difficult at best. I also put my rod on a "dryer" and turn it so everything stays put. This would be beneficial if you use the five minute stuff. Before I had a dryer, I'd just rotate by hand for a few minutes.

[Keta]

I prefer these, they are lighter and transmit vibration better.

https://mudhole.com/collections/arbors/products/polyurethane-arbors

[jurelometer]

Dave, I ended up doing the 5min and tape because that's what I had available and it's a known workable solution, not because I thought it a better option. And certainly not because I'm disregarding the value of the time you and others have put into educating me.

I am ordering some pc7 for next time. I'm gonna file it under "very highly recommended."

Devils advocate time though, if I may be so indulged. Say one is prepping both blank and inside of seat surfaces. And also very thoroughly covering the top and both sides of the masking tape dam and also filling in both the inner gap between the dams and the (very small) gap between the outside of the dams and the grips with more epoxy. how is water getting in?

Good question.  Since the liquid epoxy is liquid, it will always be trying to sink to the lowest point and seep out.  In addition to potentially leaking out, there is the possibility of voids.

Commercial product used to be glued up this way, and had a pretty high degree of failure (search the web for reel seats spinning). As you point out, a diligent custom builder will do a careful enough job to get both good adhesion and a good seal.  And the seal doesn't have to be perfect, as few folks go to the extreme of soaking rods like I do. And even if the tape gets wet, the seat isn't coming off.  It is just an extra step/risk to put something water soluble in a rod and then try to seal it fully.

I asked a respected custom builder why he used tape arbors, and the answer was that was how he was taught, and he didn't want to experiment on his customers when he didn't have any problems.  Which is a valid point.  Tape arbors bother me more than they should

We are all learning from each other here.  It could easily turn out that 5 minute works better than I think it would for reel seats. I just build a couple rods a year for myself and friends, so I am no expert.  And the best questions are usually the impertinent ones...

-J

[PacRat]

I'll confess that I have never wrapped a rod but I have a lot of experience with a wide variety of adhesives. I'm going to share a YouTube link of some stuff called RocketPoxy. This is a very strong epoxy that has two properties that I believe would make it ideal for reel seats. 1) It is very thick so it doesn't drip much. It's thicker than a paste and you can control its viscosity by cooling or warming it. 2) The working time is about an hour but the cure time is much slower. The benefits are that the 'wetting' properties are very good and the cure time is slow enough that it is self-leveling. Gravity will help move it to where you want it to cure. One additional benefit is that it will readily accept pigment. The base color is an opaque beige. Some users will mix it and let it set for 20 minutes or so before applying it. This lets bubbles out and shortens the working time, also makes it a little stiffer. These guys are building high-power amateur rockets with it so you can bet it is very strong.

I don't have a vendor to recommend but you can google it and shop around.

[DougK]

..
And even if the tape gets wet, the seat isn't coming off.  It is just an extra step/risk to put something water soluble in a rod and then try to seal it fully.

I asked a respected custom builder why he used tape arbors, and the answer was that was how he was taught, and he didn't want to experiment on his customers when he didn't have any problems.  Which is a valid point.  Tape arbors bother me more than they should

same.. don't care for the idea of tape arbors and having that potential vulnerability.. I'd lie awake at night worrying ;-)

always used the butcher string in an open diamond weave, then saturate with slow cure epoxy. The open weave lets the epoxy glue to the blank, the saturated string is now very permanently waterproof. Still fishing rods I built in the 70s this way..

[oldmanjoe]

I prefer these, they are lighter and transmit vibration better.

https://mudhole.com/collections/arbors/products/polyurethane-arbors

Key words transmit vibration 

[JasonGotaProblem]

I prefer these, they are lighter and transmit vibration better.

https://mudhole.com/collections/arbors/products/polyurethane-arbors

Key words transmit vibration 

What, so the fish hears my loud #### clicker?

[oldmanjoe]

I prefer these, they are lighter and transmit vibration better.

https://mudhole.com/collections/arbors/products/polyurethane-arbors

Key words transmit vibration 

What, so the fish hears my loud #### clicker?

You can turn the clicker off !!!    

[Keta]

What, so the fish hears my loud #### clicker?

No, so you can feel light bites and the make up of the bottom better when drift fishing for steelhead.  Epoxy is heavy and you can cut the finished weight of your rods using these.  They also eliminate voids.