How do you make braid slip on a spool

[MarkT]

What is different about nylon monofilament that makes spool slippage a non-problem?

Mono nylon stretches and pops spools. Spectra braid doesn't stretch and doesn't pop spools.   Having the line slip on the spool was unheard of until Spectra braid came on the scene.

Catching 100#ers on a Jigmaster size reel was unheard of until braid came along too!

[jurelometer]

Show the problem some love and it will love you back. Patience is a virtue.

Blowing out spools is not exactly what keeps nylon from slipping.  But agree that it does demonstrate that nylon is applying more force to the spool surfaces than PE braid.  So that is one of the things (among several) that is different.

Here's a hint: The reason that this force from the mono trying to expand matters in preventing slippage is that force pressing two surfaces together is one of the variables for computing sliding friction (the amount of force it takes to cause sliding). The surface area does not affect frictional force, but the effect of multiple frictional  surfaces is cumulative (this is how a drag stack works).

If we want less slippage, we want some combination of more force pressing the line against the spool surfaces, more friction surfaces, and/or increased coefficient of friction.


The easy way out is to bump up the COF on a smooth arbor by applying some flex tape.

-J

[oldmanjoe]

Patience is a virtue.  "preaching to the choir"   
 Looks like people coming in and lighting candles , but not sitting in the pews.
      I don`t want to preach /teach to a empty church , give me input I will give you output . 

    There is a lot of misinformation ,bad practices and not paying attention at times and the lack of details .  Pull up random videos , watch / look for the mistakes .

  Here is something to look at , why does the line spool up on it`s own in a level manor ?

[Bill B]

Reading through this thread one thing I've noticed, when talking about line slipping on the arbor. The one variable not has not been introduced is a FULL spool.  And a full or nearly full spool is where we experience slippage.

In other discussions regarding drag numbers, is the leverage applied with a spool full of line.  We know that as a fish runs and decreases the spool height drag numbers increase.  This is due to the fulcrum effect.

A proper test would be to fill the spool completely then apply pressure.  Now I wouldn't want to do this without a winder.  But in testing, first start with no knot or tape on the arbor fill and pull.  Then add different knots, tape, grease, winding pressure, etc, until satisfactory results are obtained.

Bill

[oldmanjoe]

Reading through this thread one thing I've noticed, when talking about line slipping on the arbor. The one variable not has not been introduced is a FULL spool.  And a full or nearly full spool is where we experience slippage.

  &&    OK The first question is how much slip are you seeing :  1 rotation , 10 rotation than it grabs or the worst that you can`t gain any line under full drag " the whole stack is slipping ?

In other discussions regarding drag numbers, is the leverage applied with a spool full of line.  We know that as a fish runs and decreases the spool height drag numbers increase.  This is due to the fulcrum effect.

 &&   Very good question ,most people don`t think about it .   That is one of the details I want to touch on .    This is another problem child that should be in mind when installing line on the reel .  I will get into some more later .     Please look at some Utube  videos , pick one and post it for analysis . It is easier to point out the small mistakes that just keep adding up .

A proper test would be to fill the spool completely then apply pressure.  Now I wouldn't want to do this without a winder.  But in testing, first start with no knot or tape on the arbor fill and pull.  Then add different knots, tape, grease, winding pressure, etc, until satisfactory results are obtained.

   &&    I have been watching lots of videos , close to a hundred .  I found 3 good knots . Most knots tied were set for failure  .   [ I am not kidding about playing with a bolt and string you will feel the difference  ]   I have watch a guy do fairly good ready for a "Tha boy " than do another that was R "c"hit      Start with a good foundation and build from there . 
Bill

[Gfish]

The line spools up evenly 'cause tight coils under good winding pressure force the new coil under linear pressure down, but off to the side. Stupid sounding explaination, but that's all I got.
If that was you, you godda make more grunting-groaning noise to help yourself along there😀.

[jurelometer]

More specifically, if a fish is pulling  10 pounds of force where the line meets a full spool, it will have greater leverage than pulling at 10 lbs on a half full spool - in other words, generating more torque. Spool slippage  is a battle lost between the static friction of the line to the arbor and the torque being applied.  We care about the spool slipping before the line breaks, so another reason why a  full spool is the best test.

The most interesting tests in my opinion would be a loose first two layers, and then tight the rest of the fill, and then vice versa.  Try with a non slipping arbor not, and an arbor knot that is a the slippy side.  It would require some controlled experiments with steady tension, which would mean a mechanical spooler modified with a strain gauge.    If you did a set of runs with consistent results, you would probably have your answer.  I think I know what will happen.

Faking it out by filling by hand and guestimating tension, and with a small sample size is an option. It might get you in the ballpark,  but could also be mislead you.

Having said this, there is no downside to getting the arbor knot to lock in as much as possible. I think it is the important first step, just that it is not going to save you if you screw up the fill.


In terms of bad how-to videos on fishing topics from wannabe "web influencers" and even so-called reputable magazines, I am not inclined to call out the wrong ones.  Wrong is ubiquitous, and doing it the wrong way is not horribly instructive.  The best sources are folks that are subject matter experts who would hear it from customers/clients if the method did not work.  They may not be doing it the best way, and they often misunderstand why their method works, but the odds are they have found a suitable method.

Even though I disagree sometimes with our Mr Tani,  I think his videos and tutorials are a good example on how to do it right.  He will show how he does it, and why, point out the problems with methods he avoids, and doesn't claim that this is the only or best method, just what works best for him.  If you want to worry a bit less about slippage and go the flex wrap route, his instructions here are all you need.


If you are like me, and stubbornly refuse to flex-wrap, I think that the video I referenced above looks pretty good to me.  I don't think the reverse San Diego is the only knot that will work.  The key is wrapping over a long tag, and getting that first layer (or two) down evenly and as tight as you can go.    If you don't flex wrap, I would tend to avoid using a grease pretreatment to protect the spool from saltwater corrosion as Mr Tani does.  In the video, the guy is using Boeshield (similar products would probably do about the same).  I use a couple coats of Carnuba wax, but that will probably take too long for shop fills.

Here a link to the video again:

-J

[MexicanGulf]

I will try this product, I trust Captain Nappo. However I think the Boeshield t9 is something similar to the XCorrision

[oldmanjoe]

What I feel should be done to spool a reel for less trouble ..   
   
  What is the intended use of the reel , Big game with some heavy drag ?
What line is used to spool 'Test pound "    For easy math lets say 100 pound .
    Would 70 pounds max drag be a safe working load , not that you will be in that territory all the time      What is the intended strike drag 20-30 pounds ?

    So now you have the reel chuck up on the machine .    Place the supply spool in the rite orientation to feed the reel spool.  Set the drag on the supply spool brake to 20- 30 pounds  "strike "

Tie a good knot .  Start laying the wrap side by side  close and tight , when you come to end , "sidewall '  Make a clean ramp to start the next layer and come across as you did the first layer . Keep repeating layer after layer  .    Do not make piles , hills or pot hole .    Fix them rite away
      It does take patience and technic  ,go slow .  This needs to be done  all the way up .    What do you see happening when watching other fill a reel

[oldmanjoe]

The line spools up evenly 'cause tight coils under good winding pressure force the new coil under linear pressure down, but off to the side. Stupid sounding explaination, but that's all I got.
If that was you, you godda make more grunting-groaning noise to help yourself along there😀.

The level spooling is the effect of fleet angle  . Think of boom cranes and how they wind cable up and down and keep the cable from jumping over it self.  As far as weight 2  ounce on this line works .

Man I have been fighting a upper respiratory cold for 3 weeks .  I was conducting a test to see how fast drag changes from half to empty 8 to 12 pounds .