How do you make braid slip on a spool

[quang tran]

May be Joe have a better way to tight line to spool or may be the braid we use today is less slip than the original Spider wire . Just look at the Spider wire,it's really slippery

[oldmanjoe]

OK another test using 90 pound hercules braid .  Loose knot to start , sprayed more Penetrate oil to make the arbor slick and the line .  Cranked it to 50 pounds and no slip.  A little hard to hold camera and crank at the same time ...

[Donnyboat]

I tie mine the same way KETA explained, never had it slip yet, mind you I only ever catch mino`s, cheers Don.

[oldmanjoe]

Right now, you are just to the point of proving that thin braid does not have to slip once you are at exactly two wraps on the spool. I do this test (not to the point of breakage) on every spool fill.

 I think what is happening in your test is that the tighter you pull the line, the tighter the arbor knot cinches down.  BUT... things are going to change as you put more line on the spool.  Eventually,  the tension from pulling on the line  does not make it all the way to the arbor knot.  Plus compression from above is going to flatten out the braid on the bottom, making it more like a bushing of low friction plastic.  Probably plus some other stuff that I haven't even thought of.

I am confused a bit.  Are you asserting that line slippage doesn't happen or are you trying to ferret out when and why it happens? Or something else?

-J   Enough folk have had this happen at higher drag settings that the SoCal saltwater shops started taping and then flex wrapping arbors, and didn't have problems after that.  I went to a well respected SoCal shop , and they 100% flat out refused to do a spool fill for me unless they taped the arbor. Zero interest in how "some customer" might prefer to do it.  They also kindly and patiently explained to me some (wrong) stuff about how reels work. 

Yes I am trying to ferret out why and when it happens .   More so because main stream spooling usual dead ends the line to the arbor pin or to the hole in the arbor shaft . 
         So how does the line slip on the spool?    I do understand that starting spooling without enough tension will result in dig ins and line waffling .      My next question is when the first layer goes down on the arbor ,are the wraps close together all the way across the spool or they corkscrewed with the second layer crisscrossed filling in the first layer , like a level wind will do .

[oldmanjoe]

A clove hitch with four wraps will not slip if the wraps are going in the correct direction.  The more you pull the tighter it gets. 

I agree with you ,not sure about clove hitch knot .

[oldmanjoe]

Jurelometer touched on it; keep in mind also what I will for want of a better description call the "lever".  Attempts to get the braid to slip with wraps directly on the spool would be akin to attempting to loosen a bolt using just your fingers.  But when you then use a wrench on the bolt, you now have introduced a lever the length of the wrench, and in the case of a spool, that lever is more a less the Radius of the line piled on the spool (for arguments sake say 2"?).  So if you pull on the line now, using the same amount of pulling force that you are applying with the "2 wrap test", you are actually multiplying the level of torque that is being seen.  Probably some pretty basic calculations; but I cut class that day to go fishing.....- john

   I`m with ya , I cut a lot of classes also .  I started my test with just starting the bolt , I did not finger tighten .   Not sure I am following you on the "2 wrap test", but torque and drag efficiency decrease as more layers go on the spool.

[oldmanjoe]

  This is how I tie the arbor knot for bait casters.     Put the reel in free spool.
      I tape the line to the side of the spool.   Pay out 4 turns , yes the line goes on backwards for 4 turns .      Remove tape end and pull it out so you can tie a Rapala knot around the main line .     Test it and see if it works for you.

[oldmanjoe]

  For tying spinner spool.  Just a loop knot ,than fold it to make a bigger loop.
  Keep the tag / "tail" as the trailer .  2 wraps will work.

[jurelometer]

Yes I am trying to ferret out why and when it happens .  More so because main stream spooling usual dead ends the line to the arbor pin or to the hole in the arbor shaft . 
        So how does the line slip on the spool?    I do understand that starting spooling without enough tension will result in dig ins and line waffling .      My next question is when the first layer goes down on the arbor ,are the wraps close together all the way across the spool or they corkscrewed with the second layer crisscrossed filling in the first layer , like a level wind will do .

 This happens on non levelwind reels, so it is packed however you want.  Most folk pack the first layers with wraps close together, but not very carefully.

I would suggest to start with what we know: 

1.  It is not too difficult to make an arbor knot that holds very tight (your tests). But the arbor knot only holds when the standing end is under tension.  Ergo, if the arbor knot is slipping, it must no longer be under tension.

2. This problem does not occur with nylon, so what is different about nylon?  First off, nylon stretches much more than braid.  That extra stretch m might be providing a reservoir of tension.  Also nylon has a match higher coefficient of friction, so it will stick to spool better.  Nylon also tends to dig in less than braid. But there are other differences as well.

3.  The slipping problem tends to happen more frequently when the spool is not packed tightly. Loose pack means less elastic tension, and more braid digging in.

———-

Unfortunately, this problem is happening deep in the spool, so while it is easy to observe that it is happening, it is hard to observe how it is happening.

For example, here is a non-obvious hypothesis:  When a solid piece of plastic with a hole in the center expands when heated,  the diameter of the hole also expands proportionally. If the line loaded on the spool behaves like it solid piece of plastic, then the line filled indoors and then taken outdoors may no longer be tight to the arbor.  BTW, the coefficient of thermal expansion for the plastic used to make braid is about twice that of the plastic used to make nylon fishing line.

But this is just one of many hypotheses.  It could be something more obvious, like not getting the bottom layers tight.  Or there could be multiple ways to cause it.  Who knows?

Not sure how to get to the bottom of this  without doing a lot of spool fills.


-J

[Gobi King]

I use braid on size 10, 20, 25 spinning reels and have landed many 12 to 30 lb chinook in streams running 3 to 5 knots.

I watched a few videos which suggested the following:

tie knot and leave a tag on the arbor > wind the first many wrap REAL TIGHT over said tag > till said tag is covered, keep winding braid at reasonable tension

I use a bees kneez spool holder screwed to a plank of wood with a 10lb barbell weight I bought back when I was in college in Lincoln, NE (some how I till have it).

I am pretty sure I am up in the mind numbing 6 lbs of drag 

[Midway Tommy]

Man, you guys are diggin' deep into this subject.  😱

My solution is to fish only open face spinners, not use braid and not go after fish so big that they could spin the line at the bottom of a fully filled spool. 😉 😂