Tackle Failure...was it the reel???

Started by rebait1, August 21, 2022, 08:59:01 PM

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Dominick

Did you lose your train of thought?  ;D  Dominick
Leave the gun.  Take the cannolis.

There are two things I don't like about fishing.  Getting up early in the morning and boats.  The rest of it is fun.

alantani

in my case, it was a whale!!!!   ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D
send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

sabaman1

East coast, bluefin tuna grounds. Maybe a very large great white shark!  :ct  :ct  :ct
JIM

Shellbelly

For me, it was a porpoise that fouled the leader around his tail.  Jumped 3 times before I could cut him loose.
At least I got to see what was killin' my little 309.

"Little boy,  you can get glad in the same pants you just got mad in."  (My Momma)
"You shot it boy, you're gonna clean it and eat it".  (My Dad)

rebait1

Thanks Alan. I have friends that might belabor some aspects of what happened for years---and this might take the circular firing squad out of the equation. What I tell most people at the end of any 'sad' fishing tale....."You know what you do..?...GO FISH!!!!!"
Paws, and enjoy Life !

Keta

I hooked a submarine off of the Back Island test facility.
Hi, my name is Lee and I have a fishing gear problem.

I have all of the answers, yup, no, maybe.

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
Mark Twain

boon

#21
Quote from: rebait1 on August 21, 2022, 10:01:27 PMNow that I think about it I pulled a little more and the braid broke again in my hand.

This should tell you all you need to know. I can't break 130lb braid by hand. When I've gotten hung up in a reef on 100lb tackle we have to take a wrap around a handle and drive the boat off to break it, and I'm usually in a brace position against the transom of the boat to do it.

Kind of a moot point since the reel needs respooling regardless. I'd be doing a full service anyway, because at a minimum the drag grease is presumably toast and the washer might be looking pretty glazed as well.

EDIT: Not to put too fine a point on it but I wouldn't be fishing a tournament with possibly-10-year-old braid.

oldmanjoe

      I enjoy a good story , but i have to ask a few questions :
   Who`s gear is it   "  They have like 5-8 Tiagra's and if one had issues then it makes sense to service all the reels "   OK this reel had been serviced by a local shop. Supposedly it had a 'problem' hence the work.

  I get a little lost here from your story about:
When we tested the reel back at dock it showed 41 pounds of drag at strike. Yes we know that drag increases as the spool gets smaller. But come on now. 41??
       
     Then from tht post :
The rod has new components and its safe to assume they are 100%...And JB hollow core doesn't dig into itself like solid braid can. It's lays flat. And We pulled the line out right afterwards. It was free and clear, but extremely hard to get the reel to spin. It felt uneven. But when it cooled off and I backed the drag back to 0 then dialed it up. The drag was smooth to the pull. It 'felt' OK to me.

   Just trying to gather the facts to give you a honest answer.     :d
Grandpa`s words of wisdom......Joey that thing between your shoulders is not a hat rack.....    use it.....
A mind is like a parachute, it only work`s  when it is open.......
The power of Observation   , It`s all about the Details ..
 Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.   Alto Mare

rebait1

Yeah I don't have a very clear writing style. And I blame learning differences and private school for my inability to write!!

About 6 rods are the owners (Tiagras and really superb custom rods w winthrop guides) and the rest are Penn 50 wide two speeds. The Tiagra's get scale tested/set drags before any big event. They were all set to 25 lbs. I did not respell the reel and test the drag back at dock. (It's not my reel and it needs service)....How it jumped to 41 is unknown to me.

Another top expert told me he suspects the reel jumped to a much higher drag setting. Of course we will never know but he is a hollow core outfitter and he said...."Get all the reels serviced/and reverse the hollow core on the spool....replacing the first 100' and any sections that feel suspect (to his touch). No need to replace all of it"

Another aspect of HC he pointed out is...Based on how it's made, image done to the line may reflect for some distance on either side of damage" In other words he said the line breaking, again, very close to where it broke, was not unexpected.

BTW I only posted this to hear opinions/thoughts from all comers. In other words if you feel like making a point I greatly appreciate it. Even if you do say...THE ANSWER IS YOU ARE GOOGAN
Paws, and enjoy Life !

boon

#24
You went out and battled something mighty, and were bested on the day... nothing googan about that.

EDIT: I guess what this thread somewhat serves to highlight is that it's the combination of a hundred little things that can make the difference between landing the fish of a lifetime, and being left wondering. Rookie angler, suspect reel, maybe questionable braid. If any one of those things was different, would it have changed the outcome? What about all three? I think part of the allure of fishing is that whole "left wondering" thing.

jurelometer

#25
If you decrease the effective spool diameter by half, you will double the drag at the same clamping load.

Going from 25 to 41lbs via a full to nearly empty spool sounds about right.  The forces on the turning components are not increasing though.  it is just a change in leverage, not in torque.

But the pulling forces on the frame, spindle, etc are increasing.  This is probably not going to be a problem on a bonafide big game reel.

And the heat generated is a function of friction and distance travelled (in this case revolutions).  If the reel is emptied quickly, it also will have less time to shed heat, so the temperature can build up more.

Sounds like a braid defect might have been the problem.  Gel spun polyethylene braid  (or regular nylon monofilament for that matter) does not go bad over a couple of decades of storage, even in a hot garage.  UV light is what kills the stuff relatively quickly.  Line that was in storage away from light  for a long time is at a much lower risk for failure than  line that was used outdoors  or stored wher daylight can get to it (even through a window) for a much shorter time.  Line deep in the spool usually doesn't fail from UV exposure, as it is nearly shielded from all the layers above it, which therefore should fail first.

At least this is what the manufacturers of the base materials say.  The fishing line companies say that you should buy more line as frequently as possible :)

-J

oldmanjoe

Quote from: rebait1 on August 23, 2022, 09:53:01 PMYeah I don't have a very clear writing style. 

  OK that is why i got confused , and i also hate to write .    I see that you have many responses in the other the thread  and a lot of good points .    fish on !! :fish  :fish  :fish   


BTW I only posted this to hear opinions/thoughts from all comers.
Grandpa`s words of wisdom......Joey that thing between your shoulders is not a hat rack.....    use it.....
A mind is like a parachute, it only work`s  when it is open.......
The power of Observation   , It`s all about the Details ..
 Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.   Alto Mare

Maxed Out

 2 different times I've been spooled. Both happened so fast, virtually no time to react. To this day I still think about getting freight trained. Looking forward to my next one !!
We Must Never Forget Our Veterans....God Bless Them All !!

Cor

I have fished a Tiagra a few times but never experienced anything like you describe.

Two comments:-
- My first thought when reading this and to quote you "Crud happens" is part of fishing.
- Spectra and Dynema have very low melting points.  If the reel was as hot as you described and it even
  touched the line somehow it would have burnt off?    Sometimes the friction from a finger on the dry line 
  does that from casting.
Cornelis

jurelometer

Thread is not active anymore, but what Cornelius said stuck in the back of my mind.  I looked around, and the melting point of GSP (AKA Spectra, AKA Dyneema) -140C/285F. Makes sense, because that is the melting point of polyethylene (aargh).  If the reel is smoking lubricant, you are getting the aluminum spool in that heat range, and probably more.  Line deep in the spool, or touching the spool is going to get hot. 

For heated polyethylene, there is not a sudden transition from solid to liquid, the stuff just gets more and more elastic, then gooey (I think that is the material science term :) ), so the stuff progressively looses its strength with heat.

If you can't touch the spool comfortably, the line touching the spool ( or the well insulated) line near the spindle) will not be a strong.

Which leaves one question, does the line go back to normal when cooled?  I could not find literature on this, but I would guess the answer is no.  GSP is formed by taking a high grade of polyethylene (UHMWPE), and using a special solvent plus heat to to make a gel that can then be stretched/spun  to stretch out the molecules, so that you end up with a long chain- i.e., fibers-  instead of the original more compact crystalline + amorphous (random) structure.  I would speculate that just melting the fibers  allows the molecules to to revert back to their original structure.  A fun test would be to test some braid for breakage, and then take a conuple passes with a heat gun- not enough to make any visible damage, or even better, stick it in an oven with a good thermostat a heat it up to 200F or so and let it cool.

The braid will definitely be weaker when hot, weaker if if heated under tension(it will elongate - an argument for not going overboard on the tensinon.  The remaining question is will loose braid that gets heated end up weaker.  My guess is that if you get over 250F, the answer is yes,  around 200, dunno.  They sometimes temper GSP with heat - around 180F if my memory is right.

-J