Is it heat or cold that you use to re-insert a rod guide insert??

[pointbob]

So my insert popped out. I ordered some replacements. I got them and when I tried to re-insert the ceramic guide i could not. it was just a tiny bit bigger then the metal guide (makes sense since there is a groove in the insert so it stays in place).

I tried heating the guide with a lighter for about 10 secs and attempted to jam the guide in but it would not. I used a pair of pliers to force it in but bad idea. The insert shattered. So now I have 3 more inserts lefts.

On utube a guy used a duster can to supercool the guide. He says that made it more malleable and pooped in his insert.

Before I go out and buy a can of dust....will that work? My high school science tells me heat EXPANDS metal but cold CONTRACTS it. So wouldn't the metal guide actually shrink a bit making it harder to pop the insert back in?

Thanks for any tips...heat or cold?

here's mr.freezes' video

[JasonGotaProblem]

Suspect he cooled the ring not the guide. Frankly of I lose a ring i redo the guide. But that's just me

[jurelometer]

Cerecoils are a unique guide from REC Components made from Nitinol.  Nitinol is a "memory" wire that is flexible at room temperature, but when super chilled will temporarily lose its memory.   REC sells replacement inserts for these guides.  You chill the guide frame, stretch it open, drop in a new insert, and it will flex back to the original shape when back at room temperature.

I haven't heard of a process for reliably replacing just the insert on a typical guide, or even anybody selling replacement inserts for typical guides.

Memory wire is pretty cool stuff:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_titanium

-J

[pointbob]

my guide is a fuji...i KNOW i should replace the whole guide etc but  I suck at that...and the local places are charging $50 for a single guide replacement...(i'm in canada...ripoffoff country lol)...

[pointbob]

Suspect he cooled the ring not the guide. Frankly of I lose a ring i redo the guide. But that's just me

thanks...but his vid suggest he's cooling the metal guide...argh...

[oc1]

Heat makes thing expand.  Cold makes them shrink.  So, heat the frame and freeze the ring.

[philaroman]

he's working w/ titanium & special design:
the metal frame is NOT a complete circle around the ceramic 

you have zero chance of doing same w/ regular steel guide

[Mjg378]

Im sorry I can't help with your question but I've always replaced the guide after something like that happens. Once it happens, I'd be worried it would do it, pop out, again while I had "the fish" on and cut the line.    There are a lot of utubes on how to replace a guide that can be very helpful!!  It's really not that hard and doesn't take much time.  Yes, pay the price for the professional if you want it "perfect" but do a solid job and it's good as new with some character!
Mike

[whalebreath]

...the local places are charging $50 for a single guide replacement[/b]...(i'm in canada...ripoffoff country lol)...

Last time I asked it was $8 at Pacific Angler on Broadway in Vancouver.

[jurelometer]

Suspect he cooled the ring not the guide. Frankly of I lose a ring i redo the guide. But that's just me

thanks...but his vid suggest he's cooling the metal guide...argh...

Sorry if I was not clear in my earlier reply. The guide frame in the video is made with an unusual alloy.  The freeze technique only works on this alloy.  At room temperature, the frame wire is springy. When chilled it temporarily lengthens and  loses elasticity, allowing you open it up enough to insert a new ring.

Freezing will only work if the frame is made with this alloy (Nitinol).

he's working w/ titanium & special design:
the metal frame is NOT a complete circle around the ceramic

you have zero chance of doing same w/ regular steel guide

Yes! Worth noting that this stuff is not really titanium.  Nitinol is around 50-60 percent nickel and the rest titanium. It has extreme changes in properties (memory, elasticity and dimensions) based on temperature.  Regular titanium is not the same.

The REC Recoil guides are also made from the same wire. 

-J

[Cor]

My first thought was "cool" because rings do fall out. I have had success with gluing them back using epoxy or even Superglue.   Its not everlasting.

However I noticed the ring in the video does not have a bottom, it's not a complete round ring and it does not look like the examples above.

I cut this from the video, do I need new glasses?

AFTERTHOUGHT
I see  philaroman also noticed this!

[thrasher]

Replacing the entire guide would obviously be the best bet.....but

I have popped an insert back into the frame and then surrounded the insert on both sides with 5 minute epoxy using a toothpick. It was on a light weight bait rod so I didn't rally care all that much. It stayed in played for quite some time and was actually surprising. It was intended to be a emergency fix until I replaced it but I never had to. Fished that rod for a long time until my subwoofer box came loose on a turn and the corner smashed that rod in half.

Again it was a small bait rod and not something I was hunting a fish of a lifetime on.

[philaroman]

he's working w/ titanium & special design:
the metal frame is NOT a complete circle around the ceramic

you have zero chance of doing same w/ regular steel guide

Yes! Worth noting that this stuff is not really titanium.  Nitinol is around 50-60 percent nickel and the rest titanium. It has extreme changes in properties (memory, elasticity and dimensions) based on temperature.  Regular titanium is not the same.

The REC Recoil guides are also made from the same wire. 

-J

really?  that much Ni?  always thought it was mostly Ti, 
but they didn't want to call it Titanick  

[pointbob]

...the local places are charging $50 for a single guide replacement[/b]...(i'm in canada...ripoffoff country lol)...

Last time I asked it was $8 at Pacific Angler on Broadway in Vancouver.

it's a custom rod with specific thread which is difficult to source; they have told me.

and the guides are  Fuji SiC guides (that's basically metal...right lol..it should respond to heat....if i heat it too much will it bend and flop down?)

[jurelometer]

Ooh, replacement ceramic ring inserts are a thing.  Never knew this! But I could only see generic third party product, not replacement rings from the original manufacturer.

The problem is that you need to find a good size match.  Heating the ring is not going help much at all.  While stainless will expand with heat, the expansion is not that much at a safe temperature.  We went through the actual formulas for stainless thermal expansion  on a drag stack debate, but this time I am too lazy and just used a online calculator.  If you heat a thin stainless steel ring from room temp to 250F, a ring with a 12mm inside diameter would expand to 12.009 mm. That is less than 1/10 of one percent.  I would expect that thermal contraction on the ceramic is going to be even more minimal.

Here is the online calculator.  It has the formulas as well, in case you want to do this from scratch:

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thin-circular-ring-radius-temperature-change-d_1612.html

If you are dead set against rewrapping with a new guide, using an undersizided ring and filling the void with a good paste epoxy (I like PC-7 or PC-11) might be worth a try.

...the local places are charging $50 for a single guide replacement[/b]...(i'm in canada...ripoffoff country lol)...

Last time I asked it was $8 at Pacific Angler on Broadway in Vancouver.

it's a custom rod with specific thread which is difficult to source; they have told me.

and the guides are  Fuji SiC guides (that's basically metal...right lol..it should respond to heat....if i heat it too much will it bend and flop down?)

If you heat it to much, you will have also heated the blank and damaged it.

SiC is the type of ceramic.  The frame will be stainless.

Maybe live with a less than perfect color match on a replacement wrap?

-J