Which 113?

[Gfish]

Talk Story;
Several years ago, heading  back to my favorite launch ramp in my kayak, I still had a live 8" blue/green snapper for bait. Put it out in about 35' deep reef water, about 150yds from shore. There are always about 20 shore divers there where I launch, associated with the Dive Tour Company guides. Tossed out the bait and hooked-up within minutes. A big'n, drag was screaming, kayak tilted about 30 degrees and I couldn't leverage the rig outta the pole holder. Folks on shore watching and yelling. Brain started working after the initial adrenaline rush and  I loosened the drag then got the rod out. About 30 seconds latter I could feel/hear the 50lb. P-pro rubbing on the reef—-no, no, NO! .....Yeah, ssssnap!

It was cool though, great fun on my modified Long Beach Live Bait Caster. The reel is probably twice as strong as it was stock. Some aftermarket mods,  and some I came-up with. It felt great to have that reel preform exactly like I wanted it to.

1-week latter on shore, I was showing some divers and the dive master my yak. DM starts telling us about a Great Barracuda that was a real joy and attraction for divers, up until a few days ago. They found just the head, with a long green piece of line attached to a hook in the mouth. She was staring hard at me as she said this. I almost said; "wow!, wonder who did that"? But I decided to grin and bear it. Not a big fan of the Dive Companies, with their commercial interests, they act like they own Koloa landing. But she didn't say anything directly to me or try to out me in front of the tourists. And she was pretty, that always works on me, so what the heck. But I did feel bad about it...the G. B.'s are not afraid of humans, can actually act kinda tamed, you can even hand feed 'em. Not advised though, as they have mangled the hands of swimmers and divers.

The bummer is that these critters are not common, Hellyer's Barracuda's(about 2' long)are, But I won't kill them either, too much fun. There's only about 3, Maybe 4 species that I will eat. I really wanted a chance to look-at and release that G B. I think the line mighta tangled on the reef and a shark coulda beheaded that 'cuda...

The point? Ahhh, ya never know... the economics of that episode say to me, "a bigger rig with more muscle might have made things work-out better for everyone,  if I coulda forced that big critter up outta the reef and then landed, and gently as possible(barracuda are dangerous to de-hook)released that magnificent fish"...

[Keta]

Fishing from a small private boat with totally stock 113H or 114H we had no problem with BFT up to #150 or so.

Apples and orangutans here, a LR boat can not chase a fish like a private boat can.

Wow, care to share the story behind the catastrophic failure of this reel?

The wrong reel got thrashed by a cow YFT.  We hit the jackpot on plus size YFT, on a October 2005 10 day to the ridge, and everyone on the boat caught at least 1 cow and  several got two .  My 2  were 217 and 235 pounds.  One supper cow was caught and a lot of fish 150# and up.  The only reels that did not have issues were Penn Internationals and Avet EXs.  This reel went zing POW 30 seconds after the drag was engaged.  The frosting on the cake was a 87# wahoo I caught.

[MarkT]

I'll take an 87# Wahoo over a cow any day!

[nelz]

This reel went zing POW 30 seconds after the drag was engaged.

Was it a TLD?

[alantani]

This reel went zing POW 30 seconds after the drag was engaged.

Was it a TLD?

looks like a tld 50 two speed.  those were the worst. 

[Keta]

looks like a tld 50 two speed.  those were the worst. 

Yup, a 50# reel trying to do 130# work.

I'll take an 87# Wahoo over a cow any day!

Yup!

My next goal is a 60# + yellowtail.

[MarkT]

Guadalupe would've been a likely place for a 60# YT but who knows if it'll ever open again. I had what I thought was a 50#'er at the Alijos Ridge that when boated was only about 35#. It fought well above its weight class! My best YT is 45#, best Wahoo 53#, best grouper 103#, best BFT 226, best YFT 321#. I'd really like to upgrade the YT and Wahoo!

A 113H could land the YT and Wahoo and maybe the grouper!

[Keta]

I have you beat on BFT and Wahoo, your YFT would be hard to beat,  my largest YFT was 258#, largest YT 38#. My largest grooper would have gone 10# if I stuck a few 16oz sinkers down it's throat.

[Classtime]

    I haven't picked up a 113 yet and all of the suggestions offered on this thread keep me going round and round. To make matters more complicated, I found a deal on a US113n. But of course it is more than $50.

I little about where I'm coming from:
I currently spend most of my spare time and $ riding bicycles and all of my bikes are the older lugged steel racing bicycles-- aka 10 speeds -- no carbon, no fancy shifting gizmos, no disk brakes, etc. When I ride in a challenging event with my old technology, folks tell my that I will have a hard time, I'll wish that I had a newer better bike, I'll probably not finish, etc.  But, I always have a great time and always finish the ride faster and fresher than many others who ride modern bikes. When I was racing and riding in fast groups, I did have a concern that my older technology very slightly increased the risk of me causing a mishap within the group and I did use a bike with shifting mechanisms that didn't require me taking my hands off the handlebars.

  I wrap my own rods, service my reels, tie my flies and like using my old well cared for stuff -- some of which hasn't been fully tested with big ones. My only worry about fishing with old technology, as pointed out by many of you, is that all my fun with "inappropriate" tackle will interfere with other fishermen's fun. If I loose a fish? Well, that can happen to the best with the best. My son will have all the gadgets and bring in his big one in under a minute and a half. I expect that he will then force one of his other sticks into my hands so I don't miss the second one.

Decisions decisions...a.) Play ignorant and only take my Jigmasters. b.) Pick up a lightly used 90s 113HL. c.) Borrow a 2 speed lever drag to put on one of my rods. d.) Borrow an entire BFT rig.
I'm looking forward to a great time as there is no wrong answer. And as always, I will have a great time second guessing.

[JasonGotaProblem]

I like this guy already.

Class time, i hope you stick around.

I would say for one a good deal on a us113n is something to jump on. Or pass ot along to us so we can jump on it. Bring the 113 with you, give it a shot. but also maybe be willing to use other more appropriate equipment. Best of both worlds. At least that makes sense to me.

Also, I just find that I tend to get more hits on lighter tackle. And I know I'm not alone in that.

[Jim Fujitani]

One thing no one has mentioned, is that the original 113H (and many with the aftermarket upgrades), is when you target species that are at the upper end of the size of fish you expect the reel to handle, the reel can get extremely hot during the fight.

Isla Guadalupe and Isla Cedros were favorite targets on the closed charters that I was on after 2004.  The only 2-speed I owned at the time was a 50SW for trolling.  In 2006, I we had a great trip to Isla Guadalupe.  The Shogun did not move for four days.  The larger YFT were usually just under 100#.  I hooked a few in quick succession on my upgraded (frame and drags) 113H, and the side plates got very hot.  I sprayed them with my water bottle to cool them off.  Since I wanted my fish to be in the best condition possible, I maxed the pressure to get the YFT to the boat quickly.  Hot sideplates usually aren't an issue, but it can happen if you max out the drags.

[jurelometer]

A US113N or Baja Special would not be my first choice.  There is a problem with the dog/ratchet at higher loads that can be fixed, but that requires replacing the bridge assembly with the aftermarket Cortez Conversion product.

In the end, it will be easier and cheaper to pick up a good TLD 20 two speed. In my mind, the reel is suitably "old tech" enough to be about as simple to work on and as reliable as a two speed gets.  Don't let the broken frames in the TLD 50 LRS (extra wide) photos scare you.  The  50LRS is much wider and taller, and fished at much higher drags than the 20. There was a curious design choice that gave  the 50 frame a weak spot near the gearbox.  Those broken TLD frame stories all seem to be about the 50LRS. 

As Alan noted, the TLD 20II is big enough to fish monofilament, which I think is a what defines a saltwater reel as old or new school.  Two speeds have been around a long time. 

If your heart is set on a 113, you might want to consider the standard 113 with 2:1 gear ratio instead of the 4:1 113H. [CORRECTION:  3.25:1 for the 113H and 4.3:1 for the US113 / Baja Special - thanks to Day0ne for catching this! ]

If I don't get both high and low speed, I am going to choose low speed for big tuna.  Plus the lower gear ratio on a star drag means much less stress on the dog system, gear sleeve, and sleeve to handle arm junction, all stress points on the Senator reels. And half the gear ratio means twice the drag for the same clamping load.  It won't be so great for working irons, but the hardest part of landing a big fish is the winding, and once you try a low gear ratio, you'll never go back. Plus, while you will get the sideways glances with a 113H  on the group trips, you will get the full on smirk as well with the black plated 113

Also in the star drag category,  look at some of the old Daiwas that competed with the Penn Senator line. They come stock with aluminum frames and are a bit of a sleeper. Don't own any myself, but there are some fans here that could steer you in the right direction. Bryan was making some aftermarket drag stacks for some models as well.

-J

[Keta]

If I don't get both high and low speed, I am going to choose low speed for big tuna. .....

....look at some of the old Daiwas that competed with the Penn Senator line.

2X2

I am a Penn fan but in 113-114 class reels the Diawas are far stronger.   I have a few  laying around that I have serviced and eventualy will sell if you are interested.

I still fish for pacific halibut with slightly modified 349H (6 washer drags) and stock113H and 114H reels and when I lived in Alaska had no problem with large halibut, several well over 6'.  Comparing a large halibut to a larger tuna is like night and day and I would never knowingly target larger BFT with mouse gear. 
Another consideration that I was told about was friends were on a slow 3 day recently and when they fianly got on biters the first fish hooked was on the wrong gear.  The fisherman fought a fish less than 100# for over an hour and the boat lost the school.  This cost the others potential fish.  With the right gear this fish should have been gaffed in less than 20 minutes.

[nelz]

Sounds like these boats should have mandatory minimum gear requirements to board.

[day0ne]

A US113N or Baja Special would not be my first choice.  There is a problem with the dog/ratchet at higher loads that can be fixed, but that requires replacing the bridge assembly with the aftermarket Cortez Conversion product.

In the end, it will be easier and cheaper to pick up a good TLD 20 two speed. In my mind, the reel is suitably "old tech" enough to be about as simple to work on and as reliable as a two speed gets.  Don't let the broken frames in the TLD 50 LRS (extra wide) photos scare you.  The  50LRS is much wider and taller, and fished at much higher drags than the 20. There was a curious design choice that gave  the 50 frame a weak spot near the gearbox.  Those broken TLD frame stories all seem to be about the 50LRS. 

As Alan noted, the TLD 20II is big enough to fish monofilament, which I think is a what defines a saltwater reel as old or new school.  Two speeds have been around a long time. 

If your heart is set on a 113, you might want to consider the standard 113 with 2:1 gear ratio instead of the 4:1 113H. If I don't get both high and low speed, I am going to choose low speed for big tuna.  Plus the lower gear ratio on a star drag means much less stress on the dog system, gear sleeve, and sleeve to handle arm junction, all stress points on the Senator reels. And half the gear ratio means twice the drag for the same clamping load.  It won't be so great for working irons, but the hardest part of landing a big fish is the winding, and once you try a low gear ratio, you'll never go back. Plus, while you will get the sideways glances with a 113H  on the group trips, you will get the full on smirk as well with the black plated 113

Also in the star drag category,  look at some of the old Daiwas that competed with the Penn Senator line. They come stock with aluminum frames and are a bit of a sleeper. Don't own any myself, but there are some fans here that could steer you in the right direction. Bryan was making some aftermarket drag stacks for some models as well.

-J

FYI, the 113 has much smaller drags compared to the 113H and the stock 113H is 3.25:1, not 4:1 The Daiwa 400H is a nice reel and much stronger than the 113H. Already has an aluminum frame and sideplates. The Daiwa's have much less aftermarket parts available.