Full Moon and Bite Activity

[DougK]

the local wisdom is the best time to fish for large walleye is at night, the full moons of March and April..
I do it every year and so far it hasn't worked ;-)
It does work for some, based on the pics they show..

Theory presumably is the walleye is a low-light hunter, the full moon extends the crepuscular light conditions to all night and they hunt longer into the night.

[jurelometer]

Sorry for abandoning this thread for awhile. I got sidetracked on ceramic bearings.  You guys have been tempting me with too many sciency topics lately.

On the phosphorus glow-  I thought that the glow as not from the phosphorous itself, but from the algae that consumes it.  So an alternate explanation of more activity is that there is more plankton (eating algae) in the area, and more baitfish around to eat the plankton.  But it is hard to tie any of this to the full moon...

On the walleye - yeah, walleye are optically evolved to feed in low light, but the magic hour argument with the full moon has the same problem mentioned earlier in this thread.

But if the walleye are found to feed more frequently after sunset under the full moon, but mostly in relatively clear water near the surface, I think we have an even better argument for the full moon theory.

The theory on why the magic hour (dawn or dusk) causes predators to feed more:  Predators have better success chasing baitfish upwards- so this is how they tend to feed, and even how their vision is optimized.  Coming from below makes it harder for the prey to reach cover(on the bottom), and can also trap prey at the surface.  In periods of low light, it is easier to make out the silhouette of a fish above you than a fish below you. So the predator can see the prey more easily than the prey can see the predator in low light.  But once the sun sets, the moonlight (even a full moon) is providing only a small fraction of light that was available at sunset- this advantage is gone.  So a full moon might stretch the magic hour out a little bit, but it does not keep it going for hours.

-J

[ExcessiveAngler]

I never see algae bloom on the full moon!
Always on the new moon, and never once have caught a fish with fire in the water!
I have witnessed herring and shad feeding like crazy on the new moon on plankton!
I can not get them to hit anything, on the new moon for some reason!

[Brewcrafter]

The theory on why the magic hour (dawn or dusk) causes predators to feed more:  Predators have better success chasing baitfish upwards- so this is how they tend to feed, and even how their vision is optimized.  Coming from below makes it harder for the prey to reach cover(on the bottom), and can also trap prey at the surface.  In periods of low light, it is easier to make out the silhouette of a fish above you than a fish below you. So the predator can see the prey more easily than the prey can see the predator in low light.  But once the sun sets, the moonlight (even a full moon) is providing only a small fraction of light that was available at sunset- this advantage is gone.  So a full moon might stretch the magic hour out a little bit, but it does not keep it going for hours.

Okay, I know in other threads (mostly regarding fisherman's predilection to irrationally purchase expensive lures with "hot" color schemes (BTW I'm getting ready to go on my June 8 day and where in the H*** is my Katy Perry flatfall?  anyhow) but there has been previous discussion about fish sensitivity (and insensitivity) to certain wavelengths of light due to their eye structure.  And clearly in the early morning/sunset hours the spectral wavelengths of light that we are experiencing are totally different (part of why sunrises and sunsets are so beautiful?  Only conjecture) so I wonder if the type of light also plays a factor in those "early/late" feeding patterns?  And I will have to look at what the wavelength of moonlight is (since technically it is sunlight, but reflected off the moon and entering our atmosphere at a different angle).
This is a fun thread thanks for starting it - making me try to think....

[jurelometer]

The theory on why the magic hour (dawn or dusk) causes predators to feed more:  Predators have better success chasing baitfish upwards- so this is how they tend to feed, and even how their vision is optimized.  Coming from below makes it harder for the prey to reach cover(on the bottom), and can also trap prey at the surface.  In periods of low light, it is easier to make out the silhouette of a fish above you than a fish below you. So the predator can see the prey more easily than the prey can see the predator in low light.  But once the sun sets, the moonlight (even a full moon) is providing only a small fraction of light that was available at sunset- this advantage is gone.  So a full moon might stretch the magic hour out a little bit, but it does not keep it going for hours.

Okay, I know in other threads (mostly regarding fisherman's predilection to irrationally purchase expensive lures with "hot" color schemes (BTW I'm getting ready to go on my June 8 day and where in the H*** is my Katy Perry flatfall?  anyhow) but there has been previous discussion about fish sensitivity (and insensitivity) to certain wavelengths of light due to their eye structure.  And clearly in the early morning/sunset hours the spectral wavelengths of light that we are experiencing are totally different (part of why sunrises and sunsets are so beautiful?  Only conjecture) so I wonder if the type of light also plays a factor in those "early/late" feeding patterns?  And I will have to look at what the wavelength of moonlight is (since technically it is sunlight, but reflected off the moon and entering our atmosphere at a different angle).
This is a fun thread thanks for starting it - making me try to think....

I didn't see a request for any Jurelometer jigs.  And are you even on my Pro-Staff list? 

I don't know what causes the color shift for sunlight reflected as moonlight.  Maybe something to do with the composition of the moon's surface?

The reason for the reddish glow at sunrise and sunset up has to do with shorter wavelength light (blues) getting deflected more when traveling through the atmosphere, and when the sun is low, light  travels through more of the atmosphere to reach the surface. Or something like that.  I am not an astronomer.

But there is still blue light in the mix.  And that is the light that carries the most energy, and will penetrate the water most effectively.  The so-called "black and white vision" rod cells in a fishes eye is tuned to a wider range of frequencies, but is still centered on blues.

Since the predator is feeding upward in low light, your flatfall will appear as a a black profile (blocking light) against  a slightly illuminated background.  So black will work, red will work, purple will work, orange with pink polka dots will work. It's all black to the fish.  But since most of the folks will be fishing Katy Perry, that will be considered  the hot color, and you won't be able to find any at the tackle shops

Earlier in the magic hour,  a light/reflective and dark combo might provide some benefit.  One of my favorite all around/any time of day color schemes is white (or that holo stuff  or bare metal) with some black on the shoulders. But rare to see this on commercial product.  It doesn't work so well for catching humans at the tackle shop cash register.

-J

[philaroman]

The theory on why the magic hour (dawn or dusk) causes predators to feed more:  Predators have better success chasing baitfish upwards- so this is how they tend to feed, and even how their vision is optimized.  Coming from below makes it harder for the prey to reach cover(on the bottom), and can also trap prey at the surface.  In periods of low light, it is easier to make out the silhouette of a fish above you than a fish below you. So the predator can see the prey more easily than the prey can see the predator in low light.  But once the sun sets, the moonlight (even a full moon) is providing only a small fraction of light that was available at sunset- this advantage is gone.  So a full moon might stretch the magic hour out a little bit, but it does not keep it going for hours.

so, why does dawn/dusk have same effect on bottom-feeding "grazers" (most cyprinids, catastomids, etc.)

[jurelometer]

The theory on why the magic hour (dawn or dusk) causes predators to feed more:  Predators have better success chasing baitfish upwards- so this is how they tend to feed, and even how their vision is optimized.  Coming from below makes it harder for the prey to reach cover(on the bottom), and can also trap prey at the surface.  In periods of low light, it is easier to make out the silhouette of a fish above you than a fish below you. So the predator can see the prey more easily than the prey can see the predator in low light.  But once the sun sets, the moonlight (even a full moon) is providing only a small fraction of light that was available at sunset- this advantage is gone.  So a full moon might stretch the magic hour out a little bit, but it does not keep it going for hours.

so, why does dawn/dusk have same effect on bottom-feeding "grazers" (most cyprinids, catastomids, etc.)

The theory makes sense to me for piscavores.  There can be other reasons for fish that fill other niches.  And we don't know if the explanation for "why" is correct, but more active  feeding with better success rates for piscavores during the magic hours is pretty well accepted.

I am not a sucker/carp guy myself, only did a couple sessions to see what the fuss was about.  I thought that at least common carp feed all day and usually all night, but feed more when the water temps were just right, so more active early/late feeding occurs in some locales in the summer, but not maybe not in other seasons. Probably depends on the water temp variations  where the food is at.

Otherwise, dunno. If you are a carp guy, maybe you can enlighten us.

-J

[Benni3]

Everything has a factor,,,, but food supply and when they are hungry,,,, that's the best place to be,,,,,,

[jurelometer]

Everything has a factor,,,, but food supply and when they are hungry,,,, that's the best place to be,,,,,,

As usual, you hit the nail on the head, Bennie.  You must go fishing a lot. 

If you only get to eat what you can catch with your mouth, you better hang out with the food.  And unless you are absolutely too plugged to eat any more, don't turn down a meal.

This is the key to the whole full moon and feeding thing, and why the "tuna are harder to catch during a full moon because they feed all night" is not a very strong theory.

But there are  feeding patterns that correspond  to moon phases  for some species, just not for the reasons that we read in the fishing magazines.  And  the actual moon  phase  and  change in feeding varies by specie.

I will try to write this next part up soon for the final installment.

-J

[JasonGotaProblem]

I suspect a one sentence summary of this thread will ultimately be game fish DGAF about the moon, but some of their prey does care, and they follow them.

Do plankton change their behavior with the moon phase? If so that'll affect the bait fish behavior, and that's who the game fish are watching.

At least thats my idea. Or werewolves. That's still a possibility.

[jurelometer]

I suspect a one sentence summary of this thread will ultimately be game fish DGAF about the moon, but some of their prey does care, and they follow them.

Do plankton change their behavior with the moon phase? If so that'll affect the bait fish behavior, and that's who the game fish are watching.

At least thats my idea. Or werewolves. That's still a possibility.

Getting warmer... As always in nature, there is more than one thing happening at a time.

The problem with a one sentence explanation is that there is not enough detail to change anybody's  mind.  The problem with a full explanation is that not too many folk are going to read it.  Lots of useful information waiting for us out there if when we are willing to digest something larger than a tweet sized bite of knowledge. 

-J

[Hardy Boy]

Dave: if you can explain it in a 4 second tic tock video then I may be able to make it all the way through it.


Cheers:

Todd

[Gfish]

I think I can make it through a long-inclusive explanation, but only if you write it as though it were for a 5yr old. Use some simpler more child-like synonyms for example. Keep reminding me every sentence or two what we were talking about. Throw in some bathroom humor...

[boon]

My 2c:

There are too many uncontrolled variables to draw meaningful conclusions about such things. It seems that a lot of fishing "truths" are the product of repetition of anecdotes rather than hard data.
I believe there are too many factors to fish being switched on that we either can't reliably measure or may not even know exist, and this severely complicates trying to establish the influence of a single factor. Even if you created a controlled environment where you were only varying one factor, the absence of the other factors would likely have an influence that was impossible to quantify.

I think the one factor that is near-universally agreed on for saltwater angling is that current has a large influence on fish behaviours, although it is different from species to species, with some feeding most actively when there is very little current and some feeding aggressively when the tide is at maximum flow.

[oldmanjoe]

    I wanted to quote the last 7 post , but that would have defeated the one sentence that i usually post.

 Look at the time of the year and water temperature .   What is being flushed in the tides ?