Old Penn's Still Rock

[slugmeister]

I would still like to hear people's thoughts on the 704 and 706. Is the line roller and nub design on the 706 really superior to a 704 with the bail removed? Also, is the bailess kit really better than simply cutting the existing bail wire?

[thorhammer]

OP, you threw a wide net on your post. Couple of points:

910: Same as 920, excepting 910 has a scalloped metal eccentric switch which is not comfortable. 930 / 940 are the same excepting handle; 920/920/930 all have plastic contoured eccentric switches. The main performance difference vs. Abu is that the Penn series is a tad slower than your standard 45/55/6500C series reel, both gearing and spool diameter when full. I agree, not having clicker on something smaller than 6500 is a miss on Abu's part. I used a jeweler's file to fit black Abu handles to my Levelmatics as it has a longer throw, and have been pleased with the upgrade.

704 / 706 are sized differently, both are surf fishing tanks; bullet proof and simple, just heavy. Cannot offer comparison of 550SS to smaller Z, but 550SS is my main popping reel for stripers. Also have plenty of 4500/5500SS and so on. The only drawback to these is that the AR dogs are getting hard to come by, and that's about the only wear part if you maintain the reel and use relatively within design limits. I have SSV's and SSVI's new in box, but the old dogs with AR dogs simply won't die.

[JasonGotaProblem]

Thank you John for the explanation. I still have your parts sitting on top of my bench it didn't seem like you were in a great rush, but I feel like I should do better.

Are the eccentric switches interchangeable? I'm gonna be assembling a Frankenstein 910 soonish

[thorhammer]

Good question Jason, and if I get a chance I will look. Hold on parts- I need more, and I have something for you

[slugmeister]

OP, you threw a wide net on your post. Couple of points:

Yeah, sorry about that, I was getting a little excited at the time.

I realize the 704 and 706 are a little different in size, but they are pretty close to where it doesn't really matter to me. I'd like to add another big tank reel and what I was wondering is if hunting for a 706 was really worth it over a 704 which looks like you can buy them for $40 easily. There's not a lot of 706's, and they are all over $100.

I did just win an auction for a 712z for $32, so I guess I'll see how that does. That one will replace my Penn Fierce. If I like it as much or more than the 722's, I'll probably go for the 704. Unfortunately is seems the new Penn's are not very good, the new Shimano Sienna's seem just as good for like 1/3rd the price. Unfortunately a tab inside the housing to support the shaft broke off, and my Fierce just doesn't seem to run very well without that tab. It's probably 15 years old, it had a good run.

[Gfish]

Thorhammer is spot on with Ambassadeur to levelmatic comparison. My 930 was a bit slow due to gearing and spool shape, but a nicely made baitcaster. Fine for bass or catfishing or steelhead/salmon drift fishing, but too slow for my warm water ocean lure fishing.

[thorhammer]

Not sure how / where you will fish it, but the Z was designed long before braid, so you can use braid backing or all braid on 704 and have plenty of capacity. I'd have no qualms about running 50 or 65 lb braid with a leader or topshot on that reel,and have set them up for big drum fishing exactly that way. Just switch in greased carbon drags and get after it. Not knocking your fierce, but those aren't designed in the same performance class as an SS. The new SS reels, which are the generational descendant of the 700 and Z series, are tanks as well. Your DAM Quicks, Senators, Z's, Jigmasters can all still be running after 50 years and with proper care will go another 50; your sedonas, fierce, baitrunners and stellas will not, in the same way you see a 66 Mustang still rolling but good luck finding ANY 2024 vehicle running 60 years from now when the electronics are no longer supported. Meanwhile, someone will have a crate Ford V8 somewhere in 2066, and that Mustang will still go, at a 100 years old.

[slugmeister]

There's nothing you said that is wrong. The Fierce is what it is. It was one of Penn's first real attempts to make a quality reel again after absolutely laying an egg throughout the 2000's. They came out with the Torque as the big reel, and the Fierce was the smaller reel that were all metal reels that actually worked good. They are not tanks though, obviously, as mine self destructed already.

I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing that people do not realize you can go on ebay, and for the same price, buy old reels that are higher quality than they are today. It's good because I can still buy reels like a 712z for $32. It's bad because manufacturers will continue to sell China made junk if it keeps selling. I wouldn't even be mad if Penn started making reels in say Mexico, Philippines, or heck, even Malaysia like Shimano does.  Shimano Sienna, Sedona, Sahara, etc. are not tanks, but they are usually under $50, so what do you expect? I just bought a Sienna from walmart for $8 clearance as a loaner for people.

As for the braid comment, I guess that's the only thing I don't agree with. Maybe it's a regional thing, but braid was plenty common around here back then, especially with the musky fisherman. The only difference is it was Dacron braid, verses Spectra or Dyneema braid that came out in the 90's. It's WAY before my time, heck even before my grandpa's time, but best I can tell Dacron braid and Nylon Monofilament lines came out about the same time. around 1940. Unless you mean the reels are sized so super braids have crazy line capacity, which they do. I still choose lighter braids just because it both casts farther, and it dives deeper with things such as trolling. I might use 50 pound on something like a 704/706. I think I have 40 pound on my 209 right now. Most of my rods I run 20 pound, which is probably what is going on my 712z.

All I know is I just spool modern Spectra or Dyneema braids like Power Pro straight onto my reels and it works just fine. I usually use no backing unless the spool is crazy overkill. I don't use a topshot in the sense that saltwater fisherman use. I usually use 6'ish of mono as a leader, and for musky and pike I have been using very heavy fluoro and mono as a leader for years, this year I'm going back to Surflon 7x7 steel.

[Taily]

Welcome back.
The penn 930 is about the closest copy of an ambassadeur that I've seen from any reel company. I still think the amby is a better reel. But the 930 isnt far off. And it's a very handsome reel.

Fred was gonna look for a 910 spool for me but I think we both got distracted.

This may be a 910 spool, Jason —-

I don't have a reel to do a bench match on.

Maybe you can tell by the width measurement.

I have a couple of large drawers of 910-920-930-940 parts.

And this spool looks to match the width of a 910 post.

Best, Fred

If you can wait for a couple of days Fred I'll locate my stored spools and compare what I have and let you know. At an immediate guess though what you've pictured does look like a 29M-910 (910/20 width spool). You'll have to bear with me as I'm getting back into it after ten years away.

Dave.

[JasonGotaProblem]

I don't mean to be presumptive but I believe Fred has already mailed that out, so we'll know for sure when I try to install it.

[foakes]

Thanks, Dave —-

I sent the smaller 910 spool to Jason last week.

Best, Fred

[slugmeister]

I got my 712z, and did a clean and grease, as well as added carbon fiber drag washers. Pretty much my standard practice for any reel. The thing works great. Physical size the 712 seems to be be very close in size to a 3000 series reel today, and the line capacity matches that. This got me thinking how big a jump there is between the 712/710's and the 706. I now have a 712z and a 722z. They are not a mile apart in size, the 722 is similar to a 2000 if not a 2500 series reel today. It seems to me the 714 would be splitting hairs so much between a 712 and 722.

The odd thing to me is the 716 and the 722 were made side by side for decades. According to Mystic the 716 came first in 1966, and the 722 later in the mid 70's. Oddly, the 722 appears to have a slightly higher line capacity than the 716. The gear ratios are the same. The Weights are the same. So what does one have that the other doesn't that allowed Penn to make both for about 30 years together? The 720 I can at least see has a slightly lower gear ratio, but otherwise is pretty much the same as the 722 or 716 besides that. Then again if they were splitting hairs like the 714, maybe the marginally smaller 716 isn't too crazy.

I'm just rambling now. Maybe someone can share some thoughts on why someone would choose a 716 or a 714? It's still kinda odd they didn't make a 708 or something.

[thorhammer]

Nope, that's the kind of observation we geek out on until someone comes up with an answer, lol.

[foakes]

Most reel manufacturers of high quality equipment would offer 4 to 7 models of the same type of reel —- only in various sizes —- from large to medium to tiny.

As you discovered, the difference between a Spinfisher 714 vs, a 716 —- is basically just the spool and rotor size for line capacity.

The larger difference between the  720/722 reels and the Spinfisher models is the drive-train engineering.

The steel double supported worm-drive in the Spinfisher Series (greenies, Z's, SS's, etc) is vastly superior to the gearing systems in the 720/722 models.

There are two types of lifetime reels —- one lasts for the Angler's Lifetime, and more.  The other lasts the reel's Lifetime.

Both are fine reels, but one is seriously stronger than the other.

Not everyone could or would buy the more expensive Spinfishers when they were new.  Penn needed a less expensive alternative.

Best, Fred

[Midway Tommy]

The 714 & 716, like the 712, are higher quality worm gear driven. The 720 & 722 aren't worm gear driven and more of an econo reel. I continue to be amazed at the prices some people will pay for a 720 & 722 when there are so many similar size worm gear driven reels out there to choose from for less $.