How do you make braid slip on a spool

[oldmanjoe]

  I have been reading a few posts about braid or line slipping on the spool arbors .  There is talk about wrapping tape to prevent this and tying to the pin or using the hole in the arbor to tie into .

So I needed to try a test of my own .  I sprayed the arbor with penetrating oil and made 2 wraps on the arbor and did a pull test .  I could not get the braid to slip . all that happen is the line snapped around 28- 30 pounds pull.  What did I do wrong ?

I tried to slip the line on my 440 dam spool and it would not slip .  I did find the fuse in the reel at 25ish pounds . It`s the cast piece at the bottom of the link bar

[Bill B]

That's an expensive test.  Not sure what it takes to make it slip, however the common denominator is loss of drag at about 10lbs on a conventional reel.  Bill

[oldmanjoe]

    How can I loose drag , if I can get the line to slip on the arbor ?

[jurelometer]

Yay!  Real tests!

That's an expensive test.  Not sure what it takes to make it slip, however the common denominator is loss of drag at about 10lbs on a conventional reel.  Bill

I think that you also need a more full spool with lots of winding load, at least toward the top. Layer after layer, wraps digging in and binding to each other.  If the very first wraps are not under tension (they might relax a bit as additional layers are added, or maybe creep over time can relieve some tesion), the new load won't reach them, and now it occasionally takes less tension to spin this "puck" of spectra than to unwind the line.
 
Enough folk have had this happen at higher drag settings that the SoCal saltwater shops started taping and then flex wrapping arbors, and didn't have problems after that.  I went to a well respected SoCal shop , and they 100% flat out refused to do a spool fill for me unless they taped the arbor. Zero interest in how "some customer" might prefer to do it.  They also kindly and patiently explained to me some (wrong) stuff about how reels work. 

Flex wrapping the arbor isn't necessarily the only method that works, it is just the one that has been most widely adopted, at least out here on the West Coast.

-J

[oldmanjoe]

Let me try again , with a simple test.   Tie YOUR arbor knot on a bolt , make two additional wraps  and see if you can pull the line around the arbor "slip "
Like this .  I can not get it to slip.

[alantani]

the braid is usually loose, also. 

[oldmanjoe]

   Why is the braid loose ?  Again can you pull the two wrap off the bolt   "Slip "

[oldmanjoe]

   There is a method to my madness , I want you to try to duplicate my little test ,pull two wraps off the bolt .

[jurelometer]

Right now, you are just to the point of proving that thin braid does not have to slip once you are at exactly two wraps on the spool. I do this test (not to the point of breakage) on every spool fill.

 I think what is happening in your test is that the tighter you pull the line, the tighter the arbor knot cinches down.  BUT... things are going to change as you put more line on the spool.  Eventually,  the tension from pulling on the line  does not make it all the way to the arbor knot.  Plus compression from above is going to flatten out the braid on the bottom, making it more like a bushing of low friction plastic.  Probably plus some other stuff that I haven't even thought of.

I am confused a bit.  Are you asserting that line slippage doesn't happen or are you trying to ferret out when and why it happens? Or something else?

-J

[oc1]

A clove hitch with four wraps will not slip if the wraps are going in the correct direction.  The more you pull the tighter it gets. 

[alantani]

what i meant was that the ones that actually do slip are usually pretty loose. 

[Brewcrafter]

Jurelometer touched on it; keep in mind also what I will for want of a better description call the "lever".  Attempts to get the braid to slip with wraps directly on the spool would be akin to attempting to loosen a bolt using just your fingers.  But when you then use a wrench on the bolt, you now have introduced a lever the length of the wrench, and in the case of a spool, that lever is more a less the Radius of the line piled on the spool (for arguments sake say 2"?).  So if you pull on the line now, using the same amount of pulling force that you are applying with the "2 wrap test", you are actually multiplying the level of torque that is being seen.  Probably some pretty basic calculations; but I cut class that day to go fishing.....- john

[Gfish]

So, when the line slips on the the spool, it's a matter of the knot loosening up over time?

[Keta]

I have seen it happen more than a few times.

My attachment method is a bit time consuming but they never slip.  I put 20' or so of Daceon on the spool, with a double clove hitch locked with a half hitch, then I tie or splice in my Spectra.

[jurelometer]

It's not mostly a lever thing. 

The arbor knot works by getting tighter as you pull on it.  Once you have enough line on the spool, any pulling that you are doing is not going to change the tension on the arbor knot.

So, when the line slips on the the spool, it's a matter of the knot loosening up over time?

Ooh, somebody read the post before replying.  Bonus points!

Yes, that is half of the problem.

Alan keeps pointing out a loose pack on the spool for a reason.

If you pack the line loosely:

1. The loose wraps from loading under light tension is going to allow the arbor knot to release a little.  Or maybe the plastic under tension creeps (elongates via deformation over time),or a bit of both.

2.  With loose wraps, the coils are going to dig in and jam up when you start pulling hard now you have more of a plastic puck that wants spin than a spool of line that wants to unwind. The arbor knot betterbeb tight enough to hold on its current tension. It is not going to get any tighter...

It is useful to check if your arbor knot is holding, but if you want to see if you have avoided the line slipping on the spool problem, you need to fill the spool.

I could get into the coefficient of friction for UHMWPE on polished anodized aluminum multiplied by the clamping load from the arbor knot and so on and so forth, but nobody will be reading this deep into a post anyway...

-J