Customized Eddie Bombs

[pjstevko]

I present to you all.... Black Betty, Deadpool and Dorothy sinker jigs!

(I know color doesn't matter,  I just like messing around with this stuff.  No bottom hooks so be used when fishing. )

[JasonGotaProblem]

Those are pretty awesome.

[Crab Pot]

PJ,

Fish "see" black at depth the best.

I know there is a scientific explanation to it but I sure can't wrap my head around it.

From what I read white damn near disappears at depth.

Makes no sense but I know I read that somewhere.

Steve

[jurelometer]

PJ,

Fish "see" black at depth the best.

I know there is a scientific explanation to it but I sure can't wrap my head around it.

From what I read white damn near disappears at depth.

Makes no sense but I know I read that somewhere.

Steve

I think it goes something like this:

Us humans perceive objects as white when all the different visible frequencies (colors of the rainbow!) of  light waves bounce of the object and reach our eye.  We see colors when combinations of some of the frequencies make it.  We perceive black when nothing is making it.  Light waves  get gradually absorbed as they pass through the water, so eventually, nothing is left, but black.  Pure white is actually the first to go.

The vast majority of underwater light in low light situations is coming from the sun or moon directly above, plus a few bits of random diffused light bouncing around at odd angles after hitting impurities in the water.  Both cause a halo effect- like looking at someone standing in front of a flashlight beam.  The darker the object, the easier it is to make out the profile in this situation. Hence dark lures on overcast days.  This is also why most fish are white on the bottom- it makes them harder to see from below as long as they stay right side up.

Or something like that...

-J

[Crab Pot]

Here is a good example of how fish see different colors at different depths.

This illustration only goes to 90' but you'll get the idea.

Steve

[jurelometer]

I

Here is a good example of how fish see different colors at different depths.

This illustration only goes to 90' but you'll get the idea.

Steve

I have to disagree.  Most saltwater gamefish species are effectively colorblind, and in  many of the waters we fish,  blue light will actually peter out before green.  Those charts are only accurate for filtered sea water at the equator at noon on a flat calm day. And they assume that the fish is right next to the lure.  It is the total distance that matters, surface to lure to fish, as the light absorption is a function of distance traveled, not depth.

 
For example, Bluefin tuna can only see blues- so effectively colorblind. They use the blue cone receptors to improve acuity, which helps them pick out a individual baitfish when feeding near enough to the surface. And only when looking forward and up, as the blue cone cells are concentrated on the top/front of the eye.  They have good high-sensitivity vision from the rod cells, so they can see stuff well in low light situations, just not very clearly, and definitely not in color.

Yellowtail typically live in green water (green because more blue light is getting absorbed by all the plankton near the surface), and have only green color receptors. Dorado (mahi) are the exception, with multi-color vision (hint: dorado feed in clear water near the surface)

To make things more complicated, most colors we see are a combination of light waves.  For example, a hot pink lure actually has quite a bit of blue light reflectivity in it, making it more visible to tunas than we might first guess.

And we also have to take into account if the species in question are Deadpool fans

-J

[Crab Pot]

jurelometer,

Never considered fish might be colorblind.

So you are saying they react on motion? If so doesn't mean certain color lures work better at depth?

I'm not a biologist but night fishing Bluefin Tuna at 200-300 foot depths tells me they can see because 70% of the BF, at night, that I've seen come over the rail have the lure deep in there throat. I "think" they can see, but I have no idea now!

I've never seen a snagged night BF come over the rail.

Not saying your wrong or I'm right. All I know is night fishing is productive for larger class fish and I have no idea why!

Steve

[JasonGotaProblem]

I

Here is a good example of how fish see different colors at different depths.

This illustration only goes to 90' but you'll get the idea.

Steve

I have to disagree.  Most saltwater gamefish species are effectively colorblind, and in  many of the waters we fish,  blue light will actually peter out before green.  Those charts are only accurate for filtered sea water at the equator at noon on a flat calm day. And they assume that the fish is right next to the lure.  It is the total distance that matters, surface to lure to fish, as the light absorption is a function of distance traveled, not depth.

 
For example, Bluefin tuna can only see blues- so effectively colorblind. They use the blue cone receptors to improve acuity, which helps them pick out a individual baitfish when feeding near enough to the surface. And only when looking forward and up, as the blue cone cells are concentrated on the top/front of the eye.  They have good high-sensitivity vision from the rod cells, so they can see stuff well in low light situations, just not very clearly, and definitely not in color.

Yellowtail typically live in green water (green because more blue light is getting absorbed by all the plankton near the surface), and have only green color receptors. Dorado (mahi) are the exception, with multi-color vision (hint: dorado feed in clear water near the surface)

To make things more complicated, most colors we see are a combination of light waves.  For example, a hot pink lure actually has quite a bit of blue light reflectivity in it, making it more visible to tunas than we might first guess.

And we also have to take into account if the species in question are Deadpool fans

-J

But humans don't have receptors for yellow but we see yellow. The image comes in upside down but our brain interprets it. Also optical illusions are a thing that exist. I recognize that we can't exactly interview the fish and ask what they do and don't see so studying the structure of the eye is all we really have and is a heck of a lot better than just guessing. But I fear there is risks in inferring what any animal can and can't see based solely on studying the structure of their eyes.

[jurelometer]

But humans don't have receptors for yellow but we see yellow.

I think that you might be mixing up primary colors with light wave frequencies. 

Look again at my example for pink.  Just like you camera phone, We humans have a set of red, green and blue sensors with a wide enough coverage to allow us to see whole spectrum of visible light. A specific color like Canary Yellow is some combination of those different cells firing off at different strengths. 

The image comes in upside down but our brain interprets it. Also optical illusions are a thing that exist. I recognize that we can't exactly interview the fish and ask what they do and don't see so studying the structure of the eye is all we really have and is a heck of a lot better than just guessing. But I fear there is risks in inferring what any animal can and can't see based solely on studying the structure of their eyes.

I agree, but I am sticking up what we can tell from  hard science, like which opsins are in the cone cells, and therefore what light frequencies can cause them to generate a signal. Plus there is other stuff not related to color that is actually more interesting, like flicker fusion frequency (how fast to generate a visual image- important for moving objects), and a couple different techniques to get at acuity.  Plus there is the science of light and how it moves through water.  Finally our friends Wallace and Darwin taught us about the evolutionary arms race, so we know that fish have optimized vision for the environment they reside in.  So there is a lot that we can know or figure out with a reasonable degree of certainty.

As to what a fish perceives- I agree.  With their tiny but efficient brains, I doubt that they are generating a virtual reality representation of the surroundings based on visual input with all the gaps filled in with complex estimations("optical illusions") like us humans do.  Plus they have two separate  fields of vision with little overlap - so not much depth perception visually.  But what exactly do they pull all this into  inside their little brains is a brain science question, and some might say also a philosophical question. We tend toward anthropomorphism, and expect fish to "see" and even to reason as we humans do.

But that bluefin tuna brain still ain't going to be getting any input from the reflection of red light waves off of objects. Might as well be black.

-J

[Keta]

Pressure and noise is also a factor.

[JasonGotaProblem]

I think I know the answer. But it would be interesting to see what would happen if you painted one of these blue. Probably nothing. But I'd be interested nonetheless.

[jurelometer]

I think I know the answer. But it would be interesting to see what would happen if you painted one of these blue. Probably nothing. But I'd be interested nonetheless.

Those SoCal irons like Salas and Tady are usually painted with a strip the same  color along both edges.  I paint a lot of my jig designs this way. If the color reflects blue light, it would help the tuna use their cone cells to pick out the profile better when fishing near the surface.  Probably why this is a classic color scheme. Either way, the difference is probably minimal, because a good jig still keeps getting bit long after the paint has worn off.

There is a trend now to  "upgrade" classic jigs by covering them with a vinyl skin with a photo of a baitfish on it because that looks more like a baitfish to a human looking at it on the surface (but probably not so much to a tuna). The craziest is the photo of a bunch of little pelagic crabs.  Might as well put some text on the jig for the tuna to read: "This is food- trust me"

The Eddie bombs are intended to be fished deep at night, so any color is as good as any other, as PJ has noted.  So my vote is still Deadpool color scheme, because if PJ catches a couple jumbos with it, he could start a brand new trend

I do have an idea that might make a difference.  We have been kicking it around some at the Saturday Zoom meetings.  I keep threatening to make some up, but have too many projects going on.

-J

[jurelometer]

jurelometer,

Never considered fish might be colorblind.

So you are saying they react on motion? If so doesn't mean certain color lures work better at depth?

I'm not a biologist but night fishing Bluefin Tuna at 200-300 foot depths tells me they can see because 70% of the BF, at night, that I've seen come over the rail have the lure deep in there throat. I "think" they can see, but I have no idea now!

I've never seen a snagged night BF come over the rail.

Not saying your wrong or I'm right. All I know is night fishing is productive for larger class fish and I have no idea why!

Steve

Yeah, I know that the science contradicts much of the conventional wisdom and crap that is printed in the fishing media (even the articles on the science of fish vision are mostly garbage). So it is quite a leap to take.  They really don't want us to know about the color blind part.  So many fewer lures sold

Tuna are partially warm blooded, so they can see and move better in limited light/colder water than the food that they are chasing, so dusk to dawn is a feeding opportunity.  BTW, the larger the tuna, the better the warm blooded system works, so maybe one of the reasons big tuna get caught more at night. They might be tending to feed more aggressively at night than the little guys, which is sort of the opposite of daylight fishing.

Don't know if you ever have scuba dived, but at around 100 feet it starts getting pretty dark in clear water at midday.    So 200 to 300 feet at night is pitch black.

There can be some bioluminescence going on from various mini critters, but that is just little pinpoints of weak light that doesn't travel far. It might make enough light to have a short very  distance halo effect of a "blank spot" where the jig blocks out some of the little lights, but color is going to be irrelevant, or close to it. But tuna are constantly moving. So if you drop your jig into a school, the fish don't have to be able to find it and chase it, they can just run into it.

Fish have lateral lines.  Don't know about tuna, but the most sensitive species can pick up pressure waves from up to 30 feet, but if I remember correctly, six feet is more like the range where there is useful input for most species. Imagine a tuna swimming around in the dark and feeling a pressure wave - better open your mouth and give it a taste test or the opportunity is lost.  They might see something if they get close enough (closer is better in the dark), but the key to seeing stuff in the dark is to have sensitive receptors that don't need much light of any likely frequency  (color doesn't matter) to fire off a signal.  The key to seeing stuff clearly is actually to have less sensitive receptors that need a strong signal to fire off - so only the real data is used and not random misfires or shots of diffused light.  The evolutionary choice is between seeing more or seeing clearly.  In a compromised visual environment, the fish that sees more and sees it first gets more chances to eat. So I would wager  that something that can reach the tuna first and makes a good pressure wave would get bit best. But the problem with wiggly jigs is that they don't sink well and/or stay under you in a current. Rule number one is get the jig in front of the fish.  Hence Eddie bombs and knife jigs...


I know that near surface during daylight, tuna will have a preference for basic shape and size when I am dead drifting flies, so I doubt that an Eddie Bomb would be preferable as a lure when tuna are primarily using their best vision to feed.  Although there are times that they would fight over a rock tossed into the water.

-J

[Crab Pot]

So this discussion of fishing Eddie Bombs, I've always known them as Tuna Bombs, leads to another question:

Why have a mono leader?

I fish 130 pound braid at night. Why not tie the lure directly to the braid?

Steve

[Keta]

Habit.