Strongest Mono mainline to mono shock leader knot??

[beachbob]

For my shark surf rigs I mostly use revolving spool reels loaded with 400yds of 25lb mono mainline that's mated to 30ft of 100lb mono shock leader using either a nail knot or triple surgeon knot.  The shock leader is joined to a foot or two of single strand bite leader.  I cast out the bait, no kayak or drone or cannon.  These mono knots seem to work well so far ... but maybe there's some other knot that's better?? 

Note:  No, I won't use braid on a conventional reel.  I do use braid on a few spinners where there is no question that an FG is the strongest knot for mainline braid to shock leader mono.  But I still prefer a revolver for surf casting.

[jurelometer]

Surprised that a triple surgeons will hold with that difference in size.

And you need to do some wet breaking strength tests (soak for 15 minutes or so), because  Which  lines you are joining and who is doing the tying means that the best knot for someone else may not be the best knot for you. 

Some of the knot choices will be constrained  by how hard the leader material is.

I would try an Albright, and an also improved Albright (Alberto/Bob Sands/RP).  This will also allow you to go up in leader size with the same knot, and will work with very hard mono.  A very slim knot, and can cast through the guides well when you trim the leader tag very very tight.  This is what I use when I have to tie heavy bite tippets onto lighter class/fuse leaders for fly fishing. 

Another knot that is popular for this kind of situation is the Slim Beauty, but it is neither slim or beautiful, and my ties never tested out very strong.

If you want to get the very maximum breaking, you probably need to stuff the leader up a braided loop and serve the end, then tie a Bimini loop in the main line and loop the two together.  A bit of a PITA, and not sure how well it would cast.

Let us know what you find out!

-J

[beachbob]

Thanx for your reply, appreciated.

A triple surgeon with 25 and 100 mono is quite doable, but I rarely use it because it requires dragging 30ft of leader into the overhand knot 3 times.

The Albright family of knots is essentially for mating braid to mono shock leaders. 

I've tried it and many other knots for doing mono-2-mono and none are as good as what I call a "nail knot" which is actually an overhand knot of the mono leader that's fed the mono mainline which is uni knotted on ... basically a "slim beauty". This is a good knot for a number of reasons and the fact that the leader knot is in the rear helps with casting out (but "knot" so much for reeling in, but that's an extremely minor point).

[beachbob]

Quad suregon's knot, 25lb Sakuma mono to 100lb Berkley Trilene.  This knot has been salt water bathed dozens of times and cast with 6 to 8 ounce payloads.  I think it might be stronger than the Tommy uni to overhand mono-2-mono main-2-shocker knot.  I need to do some force gauge testing .....

[beachbob]

I just performed five force knot tests using that 25lb Sakuma mono quad surgeon tied to 100lb Berkley mono and in every pull the Sakuma 25lb line itself snapped near the knot but not at the knot with the worst break @ 27.65lbs and the best break at 31.24lbs.

The arrow points to the Sakuma 25lb line that busted just before the knot.

I also used that knot in doing a few dozen land casts with the Okuma Cortez on a cheap Fiblink 12' rod with a 6oz Storm sinker in a sight cross wind and the distance was just under 80 yards, best I could do, and the best will hafta be good enuf. 

[JasonGotaProblem]

Interesting. I'm always excited when someone starts actually testing their assumptions.

Have you ruled out a double uni? The "nail knot" as I understand it is another name for a blood knot. I used to be a big fan, and maybe it's user error but I find those very difficult to tie correctly unless line diameter is very similar. A double uni doesn't care about diameter.

[UKChris1]

Knot names can often be tricky as there is no absolute, definitive list of what to call each individual 'tangle with a name'.

Having said that, and at the risk of being shot down in flames, the uni knot (also called the Grinner) is close (but not identical) to the nail knot in that the tag end of the line is trapped by all of the turns or coils of the knot; the blood knot has the tag end trapped by the turns bunching up against it rather than being wrapped over it.

Use a blood knot to join two lines and the tag ends are trapped between the two sets of coils and stick out at right angles from the mainlines. Use a double uni (or Grinner) and the tag ends are covered by all of the coils and the tag ends lie parallel to the mainlines.

The nail knot (or tube knot) gets its name from the method of tying where the tag end is fed through the coils alongside a nail (or through the tube) around which the coils are wrapped.

When beachcasting using 80lb mono shock leader and 15lb mainline, I'll tie a single overhand knot in the shock leader over the 15lb line and a five-turn Grinner/nail knot in the mainline around the shock leader.

Cheers

[1badf350]

I've used this super simple knot for 10 years and never had one fail

[quang tran]

I always use double uni-knot it works fine but a little too bulky ,this knot even more easy ,will try

[UKChris1]

I've used this super simple knot for 10 years and never had one fail

That's the one! Thanks for the picture.

[Bill B]

Asking the pros, but would a Sato crimp work here?  Bill

[MarkT]

Asking the pros, but would a Sato crimp work here?  Bill

For a mono/mono connection? No.

[jurelometer]

Asking the pros, but would a Sato crimp work here?  Bill

For a mono/mono connection? No.

I think the OP also is expecting this junction to be passing through the guides.

[beachbob]

...... 

Another knot that is popular for this kind of situation is the Slim Beauty, but it is neither slim or beautiful, and my ties never tested out very strong.

......

My YouTube research on the "slim beauty" showed lots of vids mating braid to mono, but then I discovered its actual origin which was essentially to replace the mono-2-mono "bimini twist" knot.  I will spend some time comparing the original "slim beauty" to the "main uni to shocker overhand" and the "multi turn surgeon" knots.

The "slim beauty" knot name has nothing at all to do with the knot, it's the pseudo name of its inventor

[jurelometer]

That is how I was taught to tie the slim beauty.

I only partially tighten the figure 8 before tightening the class tippet to avoid overheating/stretching the thinner line, and then finish tightening the figure 8 right before trimming everything.

As I mentioned before, I am not a huge fan of this knot. Maybe you will have more luck than I did in terms of strength, but it is still pretty bulky to pass through guides.  As a fly leader bite tippet knot, it was expected to always be outside the rod tip.

-J