Sourcing inner and outer tabbed metal washers for Alvey reels

[kingiFiddler]

Hi All from New Zealand,

I've been playing with many different models of Alvey reels. Most of them use the same type of metal washers. They seem to be either brass or chrome plated brass. I'll attach an image of what I mean.

I'm wondering a few things and hoping y'all with a wealth of experience on this site can guide me as I try to improve the drag stacks I make up for these reels.

The washers look to be stamped out. They are seldom dead flat. I'm flattening them, adding back in the stack with diamond paste and honing them to mate perfectly with each other, then cutting carbontex washers.

The cost of buying the washers from Alvey's parts supplier in Australia is prohibitive. they only sell them in complete stacks, even though I only need the inner-tabbed and outer eared metal washers, and generally more of the eared than the tabbed washers. But the stacks come complete with other washers like felt, nitrile, belleville that I don't need.
Also, I'm liking the prospect of harder, thinner metal washers so I can get more in the stack. That leads me to consider hardened SS or titanium about 0.030" (approx .76mm) would be the best option?

But where to buy them? Are any brands, maybe Daiwa (?), already making such washers? Is anyone able to help have some made up please? Is it going to be too difficult to reach the minimum order volumes for custom manufacture?

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Tony

[ReelClean]

I have never found them elsewhere, to refurb the reef winches I lap them and add thicker carbon to up the stack, or add an extra conventional washer without the ears.
If you were keen enough you could prob. get them waterjet or laser cut.

[oldmanjoe]

   If it is any help ,I get fender washers in stainless steel from the hardware store .   .060 thick and make them with scroll saw , bench grinder and needle files .
I made jig with wood to hold the washer and two screws to use on the scroll saw.


https://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Fender-Washers-Assortment-Pieces/dp/B08Q45M7GD/ref=asc_df_B08Q45M7GD/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=693270340278&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=237231996819

I don`t know if you have amazon in New Zealand .

[Donnyboat]

Good point Joe, Tony, if you need any springs for the Alvey reels, I use SS leader wire, approx, 120lbs, so take pics of what you have then you can make some up, when required, I will check in the morning, see what metal washers I can find, cheers Don.

[kingiFiddler]

I have never found them elsewhere, to refurb the reef winches I lap them and add thicker carbon to up the stack, or add an extra conventional washer without the ears.
If you were keen enough you could prob. get them waterjet or laser cut.

Thanks, I'll contact a few places next week and see if they will entertain the idea and at what costs. I suspect it might be even more expensive than buying the complete stacks from Alvey, but I won't know if I don't ask.

[kingiFiddler]

If it is any help ,I get fender washers in stainless steel from the hardware store .   .060 thick and make them with scroll saw , bench grinder and needle files .
I made jig with wood to hold the washer and two screws to use on the scroll saw.
[/img]

https://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Fender-Washers-Assortment-Pieces/dp/B08Q45M7GD/ref=asc_df_B08Q45M7GD/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=693270340278&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=237231996819

I don`t know if you have amazon in New Zealand .

Thanks for the suggestion and good on you for making your own. I tried but only had one small hand file and I gave up in frustration at the time it was taking and the OCD in me didn't like how much it varied from original. Sadly, I do not own a scroll saw, but will keep my eye out for one cheap enough to justify giving it a go. With the right blades it looks like a real time saver.

Amazon will ship most things to us. Fortunately though, SS washers are easy enough to find locally. That said, I haven't looked for hardened SS yet.

[kingiFiddler]

Good point Joe, Tony, if you need any springs for the Alvey reels, I use SS leader wire, approx, 120lbs, so take pics of what you have then you can make some up, when required, I will check in the morning, see what metal washers I can find, cheers Don.

Good idea, thanks Don. Have used SS welding wire in the past and that worked well. Not as perfectly formed as original but did the job.

It's about NZ$40 for a replacement drag stack from Alvey. The reels themselves are wickedly undervalued here and I suspect in many places, so I keep a lookout for potential donor/parts reels at a cheap enough price. However, given Alvey are renowned for making such stout reels, I seldom find any in bad enough shape to avoid me feeling guilty about not getting the reel back out on the water and catching fish. It just seems a crying shame to pull one apart for a spring or a few washers.

Perhaps I should try to place a wanted advert somewhere and see if someone has an Alvey graveyard in a shed they are clearing out.

[JasonGotaProblem]

I struggle to see how the lil hinge holds that much force. But so many folks can't be wrong. I have one from Don that I wanna try but surf fishing opportunities are so limited I go with the sure thing.

My thought would be to get a spare set grind then flat to get them thinner, and use thin carbon disks. You might be able to sneak a few more onto the stack.

[oc1]

The reels themselves are wickedly undervalued here and I suspect in many places, so I keep a lookout for potential donor/parts reels at a cheap enough price.

That sounds like an opportunity to me.  Judging by the response to Alvey closing, there must be a strong following and some nostalgia going on.  Nostalgia does not go away easily.

Someone could start buying up all those wickedly inexpensive reels, hold into them for a decade, hype the functionality and nostalgia on on line and possibly make something on a reel collection.  That would be a first.

[kingiFiddler]

I struggle to see how the lil hinge holds that much force. But so many folks can't be wrong. I have one from Don that I wanna try but surf fishing opportunities are so limited I go with the sure thing.

My thought would be to get a spare set grind then flat to get them thinner, and use thin carbon disks. You might be able to sneak a few more onto the stack.

If by little hinge you mean the indexing plate assembly that pivots to rotate the spool into casting mode, that base bolt is quite thick, and it's supported by the reel seat. I've not heard of nor experienced it ever failing. Interestingly (for me at least), since playing with the wooden spool Alvey in the photo below, I have been using their cheapest (about US$40 new) plastic kids model (40GDZ) and the base bolt on that is actually just a little stainless screw, and into plastic. How the spool hasn't departed under the load of a big fish (dropped a circa 60lb yellowtail after a 25 minute fight towards the end of last summer, for example) is something I'm quite proud of - just one of the neat skills I've been forced to learn after finding out about Alvey reels just a few years ago. That said, I guess the screw is under shear loads rather than much tension because surely the screw would have stripped the plastic thread and 'consciously uncoupled' by now.

If you mean the tabs/keys of the drag washers being 'munted' (common vernacular here in NZ) under load, I guess there can't be much axial load on the keyed bits if they are only brass washers and sliding in a small keyway cut into a brass friction tube to begin with. Doing some quick maths, I think by going a bit thinner on the metal washers and adding more of them into the stack, the increased drag is being spread out amongst proportionately more washers so the load on the keys/tabs actually decreases enough to not make the lower contact surface area of each key against the keyway or any shear force on the key, an issue? I hope so. if that's not correct please can someone correct me before it all turns to custard on a big fish.

Regarding the eared washers, the spools on the reels I mainly play with are bakelite or fiberglass (
I've played with only one wooden spool Alvey, pic below),  and I've only seen one case where the washers got so hot under load the ears melted slightly into the spool. But I'm chasing bigger fish than the reel models I like were designed for and there's always that risk, so it's a juggling act how thin to go without distorting under heat, busting tabs or ears, or melting into the spool. One way to mitigate the latter is to drill a small hole in the spool adjacent to each of the keyways that take the ears, and insert a small roll pin, so that if the ears do start melting through the spool, they stop once they hit the pin. I believe this is done, or is sometimes done, on the saltwater fly reels that Alvey does, or used to do.

Paradoxically perhaps, the low prices for used Alveys makes it hard to justify the cost of buying a full drag stack off Alvey (about $40) to get enough washers to upgrade the drag, when the reel itself may have only cost about $40-60 and only commanding about $60-100 once I've finished messing with it. On my own special project reels where I know it's still a very cheap reel I'll spend the $40 to buy the new drag stacks but it sure would be nice to find a supply of the metal washers at better prices, for when I'm asked to upgrade the reels of other lunatics trying to chase marlin and tuna.

[kingiFiddler]

The reels themselves are wickedly undervalued here and I suspect in many places, so I keep a lookout for potential donor/parts reels at a cheap enough price.

That sounds like an opportunity to me.  Judging by the response to Alvey closing, there must be a strong following and some nostalgia going on.  Nostalgia does not go away easily.

Someone could start buying up all those wickedly inexpensive reels, hold into them for a decade, hype the functionality and nostalgia on on line and possibly make something on a reel collection.  That would be a first.

It's that age-old conundrum of trying to hold out long enough waiting for the market to finally understand how great these reels are and value them accordingly. I'm back down to four Alveys and am reliably informed I have no plans to let it creep back above that. 

[Donnyboat]

Sorry Tony, I had a good surch for any manufactured metal washer, but know luck, Jason, you were questioning the stength of the centre pin, that the spool rotates on, we caught a 10foot 11 inch shark on a Alvey model 650 c5 reel, it took about an hour, to get it up against the boat, so i could cut most of the leeder of, that model I sent to you, is up there man, keep well cheers Don.

[kingiFiddler]

Sorry Tony, I had a good surch for any manufactured metal washer, but know luck, Jason, you were questioning the stength of the centre pin, that the spool rotates on, we caught a 10foot 11 inch shark on a Alvey model 650 c5 reel, it took about an hour, to get it up against the boat, so i could cut most of the leeder of, that model I sent to you, is up there man, keep well cheers Don.

Thank you very much for looking Don. Much appreciated. Hopefully, I can get some prices back from a laser cutter this week. I suspect it won't be cheap and there'll be significant minimum order quantities, but hopefully it's do-able.
Well done on that shark. The 1:1 ratio sure comes in handy when they don't want to come to the boat easy. I modified a drag stack on a 725 trolling reel for this fellow last year, who caught this on his 925 and wanted to step down a bit. We are both hoping he nails a nice one on his 725 this summer. Came close last summer but they didn't want to stay connected.

[Donnyboat]

Gee nice fish n lovely calm day, also good to put a face to a name,I presume thats you in the picture, that 650 I was using for the shark, is only a casting reel, but they do the job really good, and the 1 to 1 ratio, is really good, I did place a luer out behind the boat once, and forgot to, check the drag, so all the line on the reel fed out, about 700 m , what a job to wind it all in, then to take it all of once I was home to remove all the salt from it, I dont recommend it,to anyone, cheers Don.

[kingiFiddler]

The Marlin fisho with the 925 trolling reel isn't me. It's a guy I sold a 725 to and then modified his drag stack to get it as smooth and capable as I could, when I learned he was going to target marlin and tuna with it. One day this summer, I hope to find a marlin. Not an easy endeavor from a kayak but will give it my best shot. I'll be using the smallest reel in that series - the 525.
I'm the hairy midget with the yellowtail in the first photo. Was hamming it up for my sister who wanted a photo of me catching a fish.

Funny you mentioned letting all the line out. I've done that too, with a livie when the release clip I use triggered without me realising it. It's a heap of line to get back if winding constantly, when there are no gears.

Have been in touch with a laser cutter and as suspected, the MOQ's make it a not cheap exercise, meaning I'll have a few lifetimes supply of washers, but have agreed to get some samples cut and see what they come through like. Being a bit green in such things, I'm not sure how the 0.2mm tolerances they work to will impact the little keys on the keyed washers in particular, whether any localised heat from the laser will impact the strength of those keys, and what the cut edges will come through like. But by the end of next week I should have a better idea.