Is heavier better?

[gstours]

This is the third enlargement of the octopus 🐙 jig that your Jurelometer has produced from a 3D printer and garage computer.   He made a silicone mold that pours like a dream,  resulting in a 18.5 ounce creature.
  That's a lot o grams.  Thanks Dave,   You are very talented.   

[foakes]

I have always listened to my elders!

The one guy who taught me more about fishing than anyone else has been gone for over 30 years now, Elmo.  A man of few words.  But the ones he shared were worth paying attention to...

He maintained —- big lure = big fish.

May not catch as many, but the ones caught were big.

Great work by both you and Dave, Gary!

Best, Fred

[MACflyer]

Looks like the heavies are working! Nice work.

[jgp12000]

I guess they think its some sort of hybrid octopus,they cannot resist  

[jurelometer]

Gary is my top test pilot.  Most folk just want to catch fish and are resistant  to switching from whatever techniques and tackle are currently popular.  I have had plenty of great discussions with Gary trying to figure out the "why" part for his fishery.  And afterwards, Gary goes out and gives it a shot!  Couldn't ask for a better partner on this endeavor.

It pisses me off that the software does a bad job on calculating the expected mass on the octo jigs.  I drew it up for 22 oz this time, expecting  to hit 20oz.  Maybe it is the more organic shape.  It hits it right on the money for others lure designs. 

-J

[jurelometer]

I would argue that to a halibut, these look more like an octopus than the other octopus jigs out there.

All fish live in a visually compromised environment, especially once you get a few feet under the surface.  Their vision is adapted to see more from what little useful  visual signal  is available, favoring seeing a fuzzier profile sooner instead of more detailed image later (or never).  The profile (as the fish sees it) is everything.

I made this design because I got annoyed by all the sub-optimal octopus jigs out there, even though it is one of the easiest designs to get right.

First of all, the jig has to drop efficiently without spinning or tangling, especially where there is current.  Then it has to minimize water resistance in current during the jigging phase.  There should be a re-orientation for the jigging phase to allow the jig to present a profile that is more like a real octopus.  Then finally, it has to resist spinning and minimize  resistance when you are winding it up without a hooked fish.

How you skirt  the jig changes the appearance and action.  Skirts with thick legs with one reversed make for octopus-like profile, but thinner- non-reversed skirts can provide more movement with less resistance on the drop.

This is not too hard to do.  It just takes applying some logic, engineering principles, some experience with jigging, and a few dozen hours looking at videos of octopus free  swimming or being chased down by predators. And then, actual on the water testing to validate and improve the design.

Most commercial octopus jigs fail on multiple counts.  Mostly because they are designed to look appealing to humans so that we will buy (and often not ever use) them. And secondly, I doubt that the actual designers think too deeply about the actual fishing.  IMHO, a cannonball sinker with a skirt would probably fish better than most commercial octopus jigs.

-J

[jurelometer]

And finally on where size fits in when selecting a lure...

here are Jurelometer's rules for lure selection in order of importance:

1. It has to be able to reach the fish and stay in the zone.  (Seems obvious, but we will often fish a less optimal but favorite lure instead). This is some combination of casting distance, sinking speed, and depth change during the retrieve.

2. Speed.  There are plenty of fish in the ocean that will try just about anything if it is moving at the right speed.  Most lures have a speed range where action is as intended. But the right speed is still more important than the right action.  And some lures have too much resistance to pull fast when you need a lot of speed.

3. Size. Sometimes "matching the hatch" in size  is very important, but  going a bit to a lot larger than local prey might get you a bite when your target has choices, or wants  to limit exertion per potential calorie (this is the big fish/big lure justification).

4. Profile.  The basic shape when viewed by the target.  This is usually below and to the side.

5. Action.  Can be very important for some lures for some species.
 
6.  Light vs dark coloration (not colors). Depending on time of day, background, whether  the target is looking up, down or across, you chose one or the other. A light/dark combination that helps enhance the profile makes more sense than patterns like stripes or bars that help to camouflage the profile (that is why many species have these patterns).

Look at those SoCal irons that have been popular forever- the most common color patterns are a light center and a dark band around the perimeter - great for providing a profile in a variety  of situations.

7. Flash.  This can be essential in some situations, and make a lure useless in others, especially for extra flashy lures.  Humans tend to favor it more often than the fish do.

8.  Colors/realism (as humans perceive it). This is scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of being impotent for catching fish, but I have found that it is extremely important to get people to try my lures. I would argue  that most fishermen put this near the top of their list.

-J

[jgp12000]

I think lures that look like the natural food source do well,however I have caught huge catfish on bubble gum pink plastic worms.Who knows what they are thinking when they bite ?

Maybe not thinking,just hungry like me at a chinese buffet

[Cor]

I can only comment on my experience with game fish, Yellowtail, Tunas, Bonita and one or two others.   I have for 30 years made all my own lures, experimented a lot with different material from very soft silicones to hard PVC or resins and metal.   I will believe that catching a Halibut on a lure is probably a very different kettle of fish to a fast moving surface feeding game fish.
I have also always fished visually, so can usually see the fish from when it becomes aware of the lure which can be as far away as 40 mt, to turning towards it, or tasking fright and darting away, following and or taking the lure.    There are many variations to what the fish does or does not do.

I have always believed that game fish in 70% of the takes have a "catch it first, then decide if its edible" attitude.   There is probably no time for them to decide what the lure looks like, what colour it is whether it has eyes etc.   With these fish its what the angler does with the lure that matters, not so much the lure itself.

The other 30% of game fish is a different but similar story.........
To be continued

[MarkT]

Is heavier better? Sometimes yes!

[jurelometer]

I can only comment on my experience with game fish, Yellowtail, Tunas, Bonita and one or two others.  I have for 30 years made all my own lures, experimented a lot with different material from very soft silicones to hard PVC or resins and metal.  I will believe that catching a Halibut on a lure is probably a very different kettle of fish to a fast moving surface feeding game fish.

Excluding trolling, lure fishing for Pacific Halibut is standard drop jigging with an emphasis on keeping close to the bottom. In most places, you need to fish on the deeper side (200ft+).  Where Gary fishes, there are also some shallower spots with generally smaller fish.  But with the giant tides that they experience, there is a lot of water movement with the tides, so strong currents are the primary challenge for drop jigging.

There was a cool experiment where scientists put lures inside of a clear plastic cylinder to confirm that halibut are willing to feed based entirely on  visual stimulation.  But as a primarily ambush predator, halibut are less frequently cruising around looking for food the way a yellowtail might.  Plus the videos that I have seen of halibut attacking flies and lures shows that the actual bite often occurs when the lure slows down or stops.  This makes sense, as the halibut body shape is not particularly efficient for running down prey.

A lure that provides more motion at stop or lower speeds is probably a better match.  Also, including some amount of scent to create a path to the lure in current seems to work.  The preference here ranges from just a small strip of skin all the way to astonishingly large payloads.  A large payload produces more scent, but will limit the ability to fish in stronger current. And with the skirts providing much of the action, a larger payload does not inhibit octopus jig mechanical performance as payload increases.

So you can see how octopus jigs would work well here.  I think it is mostly these practical considerations that make the difference rather than the halibut expressing a preference for octopus as a target. I do well with deep grouper on the same jigs, although most folk drop and bounce long skinny jigs for grouper.  Other than hanging out near the bottom in deeper water, these grouper are not like halibut at all.  Different species, different diet, but very similar practical considerations to fish for them.

Agree  about the details (color, eyes,...).  Most saltwater gamefish are opportunistic predators, so with some exceptions (size for tuna!), the details are usually not a deal breaker.

I have also always fished visually, so can usually see the fish from when it becomes aware of the lure which can be as far away as 40 mt, to turning towards it, or tasking fright and darting away, following and or taking the lure.    There are many variations to what the fish does or does not do.

I have always believed that game fish in 70% of the takes have a "catch it first, then decide if its edible" attitude.  There is probably no time for them to decide what the lure looks like, what colour it is whether it has eyes etc.   With these fish its what the angler does with the lure that matters, not so much the lure itself.

The other 30% of game fish is a different but similar story.........
To be continued

Agree.  Plus fish have eyes on the side of the head, so most species can't see anything right in front of their nose very clearly.

And nothing more fun than watching a yellowtail do a long distance high speed rundown on a surface lure. I have a few of these permanently etched into my memory.

For your situation, getting the lure in the zone is going to be mostly a function of casting distance and maintaining the proper depth at the preferred retrieve rate (presumably quite fast). 


Looking forward to part 2.

-J

[Cor]

I can only comment on my experience with game fish, Yellowtail, Tunas, Bonita and one or two others.  I have for 30 years made all my own lures, experimented a lot with different material from very soft silicones to hard PVC or resins and metal.  I will believe that catching a Halibut on a lure is probably a very different kettle of fish to a fast moving surface feeding game fish.

Excluding trolling, lure fishing for Pacific Halibut is standard drop jigging with an emphasis on keeping close to the bottom. In most places, you need to fish on the deeper side (200ft+).  Where Gary fishes, there are also some shallower spots with generally smaller fish.  But with the giant tides that they experience, there is a lot of water movement with the tides, so strong currents are the primary challenge for drop jigging.

There was a cool experiment where scientists put lures inside of a clear plastic cylinder to confirm that halibut are willing to feed based entirely on  visual stimulation.  But as a primarily ambush predator, halibut are less frequently cruising around looking for food the way a yellowtail might.  Plus the videos that I have seen of halibut attacking flies and lures shows that the actual bite often occurs when the lure slows down or stops.  This makes sense, as the halibut body shape is not particularly efficient for running down prey.

A lure that provides more motion at stop or lower speeds is probably a better match.  Also, including some amount of scent to create a path to the lure in current seems to work.  The preference here ranges from just a small strip of skin all the way to astonishingly large payloads.  A large payload produces more scent, but will limit the ability to fish in stronger current. And with the skirts providing much of the action, a larger payload does not inhibit octopus jig mechanical performance as payload increases.

So you can see how octopus jigs would work well here.  I think it is mostly these practical considerations that make the difference rather than the halibut expressing a preference for octopus as a target. I do well with deep grouper on the same jigs, although most folk drop and bounce long skinny jigs for grouper.  Other than hanging out near the bottom in deeper water, these grouper are not like halibut at all.  Different species, different diet, but very similar practical considerations to fish for them.

Agree  about the details (color, eyes,...).  Most saltwater gamefish are opportunistic predators, so with some exceptions (size for tuna!), the details are usually not a deal breaker.

I have also always fished visually, so can usually see the fish from when it becomes aware of the lure which can be as far away as 40 mt, to turning towards it, or tasking fright and darting away, following and or taking the lure.    There are many variations to what the fish does or does not do.

I have always believed that game fish in 70% of the takes have a "catch it first, then decide if its edible" attitude.  There is probably no time for them to decide what the lure looks like, what colour it is whether it has eyes etc.   With these fish its what the angler does with the lure that matters, not so much the lure itself.

The other 30% of game fish is a different but similar story.........
To be continued

Agree.  Plus fish have eyes on the side of the head, so most species can't see anything right in front of their nose very clearly.

And nothing more fun than watching a yellowtail do a long distance high speed rundown on a surface lure. I have a few of these permanently etched into my memory.

For your situation, getting the lure in the zone is going to be mostly a function of casting distance and maintaining the proper depth at the preferred retrieve rate (presumably quite fast). 


Looking forward to part 2.

-J

Part two has to wait a while, trying to move house

And nothing more fun than watching a yellowtail do a long distance high speed rundown on a surface lure. I have a few of these permanently etched into my memory.

This is what makes yellowtail fishing so addictive, particularly fishing from shore where you can often chose the height above the ocean you want to fish from and the best and most exiting of this fishing is from about 15 ft heigh and with the sun behind you.    I probably experienced my very best fishing from a spot around 30 mt above the ocean!

Very often a Yellowtail will turn on to a lure at the end of your cast, and follow right to 2 mt in front of you and then turn off, but the angler can entice the fish to take it, often at your feet on the last few handle turns.

As to the lure weight, it effects the lures action, but if that is what the fish want that day no problem.   On a boat the fish are often 40 mt down and can be seen on the echo sounder, then a heavy iron is beneficial to get the lure down to the fish quickly.  Albacore I think of here in particular, wind a heavy lure up at full speed and have it stopped by one of those magnificent fish.......

[Gfish]

Overall the more dense a jigging lure is, the better control I have over it and the more bites I get. So dressed-up lead is best. On smaller jig-head lures I like to add lead on for the body before covering it with fur and(or) feathers. This can affect the typical jigging action, but seems to be worth it when fishing in the ocean or a river.

[gstours]

There now is better choices in this jig and it's development.   I'll call it evolution.   Shown here are the 3 sizes roughly 12-16-20 ounces .
   As depth, current flow, bait payload will change during the day,  adjusting to the best condition for the drop is now more possible.   
  I've been tardy with my posts but thankful for the feedback and support from Dave.
More pics coming.   Stay tuned.