TLD 30ii vs 50ii strength

[Keta]

Another good choice Mark.

[Bill B]

I have to say Shimano is not in my top 5 of big game reels.  Parts availability is sketchy at best.  If the price point is an issue look at the Penn Fathoms.  1st Gen is better than 2nd, but I do have both.  If really pissed off fish are on the menu the Internationals (in my book, and I do love my Penns) are the way to go.  The Australian sellers on EBay have the best prices you will find on new Fathoms. 

This fish (150# BF) was on a Fathom 40NLD2 with 80# braid and topshot.  The rod was way under powered the Fathom held its own.  Fish kicked my butt, the rods fault, not the reel.

Bill

[boon]

EDIT: Man what do I know, go fight a 600lb Blue on a Fathom, let me know how it goes.

[Keta]

EDIT: Man what do I know, go fight a 600lb Blue on a Fathom, let me know how it goes.

Although I personaly fish my FTH 40N as a 50/60# reel I know a lot of BFT over 200# have been caught with them.

I think a Fathom 80 might be up to plus size marlin. If I was targeting them I would prefer a International 50 or larger though.

Gear Ratio: 4.2:1 / 1.6:1
Max Drag: 50lb | 22.6kg
Braid Capacity (yds/lbs) 980/100 815/130 600/200

[Bill B]

EDIT: Man what do I know, go fight a 600lb Blue on a Fathom, let me know how it goes.

I wouldn't chase a 600# marlin with a Fathom and I wouldn't chase a marlin with a TLD  or Squall either. 

How often do 600# fish come around?

I am a firm believer in choosing a reel for the fish I'm most likely to catch.  Bill

[boon]

I am a firm believer in choosing a reel for the fish I'm most likely to catch.  Bill

Me too, it's a tricky one though because when you're in waters where those big fish are, shall we say, not uncommon, you just have to be at peace with very likely getting the snot beaten out of you if you do hook one. It means probably 99% of your fishing will be more sporting, more enjoyable etc, but you might end up awake at 3am wishing you'd had a proper game reel after losing a monster. I know I did, and that was with a 50w when I should have been using an 80.

[oc1]

I'm with Bill on this.  When that once-in-a-lifetime giant odd-ball comes along you just tie in another rig before you get stripped.  You have hundreds of yards to think about it.

[TangoDelta1981]

EDIT: Man what do I know, go fight a 600lb Blue on a Fathom, let me know how it goes.

I wouldn't chase a 600# marlin with a Fathom and I wouldn't chase a marlin with a TLD  or Squall either. 

How often do 600# fish come around?

I am a firm believer in choosing a reel for the fish I'm most likely to catch.  Bill

They do come around - if you fished 100 days you would definitely hook one - but there is some predictability to it - with the bigger ones being around later in the season.

The dilemma is that there are also lots of smaller blues and stripes plus sailfish at the same time - and these can be quite hard to hook at times.

When fishing a nice spread with Illanders and ballyhoo, plus the need to drop back smoothly to the sail, the TLD's are nice.

I suppose one can mitigate things somewhat, I normally pull the big marlin lures close to the boat on 2x Penn International 30W's - but Murphy's Law is always there.

As a center console we are fairly quick at turning and chasing the fish fwds.

I suppose the reality is that slowly upgrading to Talicas is probably the way to go.

The thing is that if one is fishing "light gauge" hooks as we mostly do, my question remains, is there any real advantage (other than a better drag system in terms of heat dissipation) to have a reel that can handle heavy drags?

I suppose I probably need to see what it takes to straighten a light gauge hook and consider that as an upper limit.

[boon]

I suppose the reality is that slowly upgrading to Talicas is probably the way to go.

The thing is that if one is fishing "light gauge" hooks as we mostly do, my question remains, is there any real advantage (other than a better drag system in terms of heat dissipation) to have a reel that can handle heavy drags?

I suppose I probably need to see what it takes to straighten a light gauge hook and consider that as an upper limit.

Makairas and Penn International VISX should be in the mix for you too.

Light gauge does not mean light drag. It means sometimes light drag. You can still use "big game" levels of drag if you need to, as long as the hook is sunk in properly. A properly sunk light gauge hook should deal with 30lb of drag no problem, which is a lot on standup in a small boat. It still might not stop a pissed off fish

[alantani]

go with the makaira or the visx.

[TangoDelta1981]

For reels without harness lugs - ie a Speedmaster or reels where putting pressure on the lugs leads to possible frame failure (TLDs) ... do these work with a harness ... https://www.tackledirect.com/black-magic-tackle-light-tackle-harness-adapter.html

And how do they feel similar or is it a serious downgrade

[jurelometer]

For reels without harness lugs - ie a Speedmaster or reels where putting pressure on the lugs leads to possible frame failure (TLDs) ... do these work with a harness ... https://www.tackledirect.com/black-magic-tackle-light-tackle-harness-adapter.html

And how do they feel similar or is it a serious downgrade

I don't think that putting  pressure on the lugs contributes to frame failures in the TLDs.  These frames fail from the vertical levering and horizontal twisting load when the line is on  the side of the spool with the wider models.  If anything, a harness with lugs will provide some modest amount of load sharing.

Not that I would recommend locking a harness onto the lugs of a reel with a reputation for breaking off at the foot of the frame.  That could get a bit scary.

The thing is that if one is fishing "light gauge" hooks as we mostly do, my question remains, is there any real advantage (other than a better drag system in terms of heat dissipation) to have a reel that can handle heavy drags?

As Boon noted, when the load is centered on the bend of the hook, even a lighter gauge hook will be quite strong.  Even  my typical carbon steel 2/0 saltwater fly hook can easily hold 60 lbs of load when perfectly centered on the apex of the bend.  The problem is that even when the hook fully penetrates, if the only the tip is in harder bone, the load will not be centered.  I have bent the same 2/0 fly hooks using around 10  lbs of drag in actual fishing.

The stronger the hook, the more leeway you have for less than perfect hookset.

Having more drag can come in handy if you need it to lift that big blue after it sounds at the end of your light gauge fight.  You might bend the hook, but you might not.  At that point, your options are sort of limited.  But more available drag gives you a chance.

I am not a big believer that the larger/heavier frames and spools provide better drag performance due to conduction of heat into larger "heat sinks". But that is a longer debate.  I am also not sure how much "better" the drags are, other than a larger surface area for heat transfer (probably mostly to the surrounding air) on the larger reels. It is enough to note that those big gold reels have stronger frames and larger ball bearings, which allow them to more safely handle higher drag situations.

I have never personally seen a marlin boatside that was larger the 250 lbs.  I can only imagine one that was 2.5 times that size.  If I was intentionally targeting billfish that large, I want whatever is the farthest from flimsy, especially if I am going to harness myself to it.

A good eventual compromise for you might be to go to a International/Makaira class reel, but stick to a smaller size.  Light enough to not be a complete buzzkill on the typical catch, but less likely to blow up on you with a big marlin that you can fight with the light gauge technique. A VISX 16 gets you close to 800 yards of 80 lb braid with 45 lbs of drag according the Penn's specs.

BTW, where are you fishing?

-J

[Keta]

The harness lugs on the one I saw explode were not being used.  The reel was being fished with 130# spectra and the YFT we were catching all ran between 170 and 250 pounds. 

[TangoDelta1981]

BTW, where are you fishing?

-J

East Africa.

All this is very interesting stuff. I suppose the flip-side is to remember how many fish have been landed on TLDs the world over!

I have some older single speed Penn International 20s that I may service and add to the fray whilst I slowly upgrade .

[Patudo]

Fish that one might encounter would be anything from a sail to a 200lb yellowfin to a 600lb blue marlin.

There is no one rod, reel, outfit that can truly do it all, the needs of light tackle billfishing - freespool - handling - sensitivity are almost diametrically opposite to the demands of heavy tackle fish and fishing. Smaller reels capable of heavy drag do exist but the heavy line, rods etc needed to use that drag capability can themselves make you less effective on the more numerous small billfish for which as you have already found a delicate touch will get you further than a heavy hand.  I would advise you choose your weapon based on your understanding of your fishery and your personal or team aims and take your chance, accept the risk of an overmatch or if heavy gear is chosen the greater chance that smaller fish will be missed or overpowered, is that not why we call it fishing rather than catching?

There is no doubt that with intelligent boat handling and angling a lot of great fish have been caught on tackle that would be considered light for their size, these are your most effective weapons when a large fish for size tackle jumps on I.M.O. Time spent fishing with professionals to learn and understand these tactics is never wasted.  Of course there are also any number of stories of the big one that got away, and these would include fish hooked on heavy tackle as well as light. So much depends on whether your objective is sport and fun vs. wishing to be truly ready for the big one, which would include strong hooks - heavy leader - number of lines fished as well as having the appropriate tackle. If you need to keep your team happy with action and excitement you will probably find yourself leaning in a different direction to if you have the freedom and desire to focus on the big ones. 

For your vessel and situation you will probably also be limited by what your anglers can handle standing up.  You will probably not be able to use the full power of 80 lb. line unless you are fishing with a team of Gorillas and even then maybe not. 

PS. with the TLD30s I would use them more or less as they were designed for (not more than 50 lb. line) with spectra braid backing for capacity. Just make sure to anticipate and practice what to do if a big one climbs on, as it will come in real handy WHEN it does.   

You sir have the fortune of living and fishing in a fishery that allows you these choices and opportunities, I look forward to your future reports, heartbreaks and successes, on light tackle or heavy.