Geary feel on baitcasters

[AmericanStriper]

I have several shimano baitcasters (Caius B, SLX XT 150 HG, SLX MGL 70 HG, and Curado MGL 150 HG) that all have developed a "noisy" feel less than a year after purchase.  I'm most concerned for the Curado and have tried to fix this issue. I would feel "noisy" whirring or geary feel when under load, such as using spinners or swimbaits. It is a significant difference in feel compared to when they were new. They was much quieter and smoother, especially under load.

Even after cleaning the gears and putting on fresh grease, the problem persist. I have eliminated the bearings as the cause; replacing the bearings didn't change anything. Neither did cleaning and relubing all other reel components. I really think the issue is the gears.

A common factor is that I used Shimano drag grease on all of them, when they started having gear problems and then I cleaned off the old grease. Maybe the Shimano drag grease is not good for the gears and I should be using something else? I did notice on the Curado MGL 150 that after cleaning and reapply gear grease, it became discolored after only 2 fishing trips. It was like dark gray sludge, and this makes me think that the  gears is wearing out fast and potentially damaged, despite the fresh grease.

I also used each of the reels "as is" when they were new. I didn't replace the gear grease and thought the factory grease would be sufficient. Maybe that was the mistake, and caused the gear issues? I would want to try all other options before purchasing new gear sets.  For me, I would like to get to the bottom of this issue, otherwise this same thing could happen again if I were to get a nw gear set.

[akfish]

Gears wear and become noisy. This is common if you fish heavy drag, and it's especially common with graphite framed reels -- or reels that use soft metal in the gears. I suspect that's what is happening to you.

[DougK]

drag grease is not gear grease.. different purpose, different formulation.

I'm not sure if there is a US retailer of Shimano gear grease, can get it from Hedgehog which has been a reliable supplier for me.
https://www.hedgehog-studio.co.jp/product/1700

Factory grease will be fine until it's well used and dirty, should be inspected and replaced regularly.
I don't have any Shimano reels, believe the company is quite fussy about its grease and will deny warranty if non-Shimano grease has been used.
For my Ambassadeurs etc I have been using either a teflon grease made for bicycle bearings, or Quantum Hot Sauce. So far both of those seem to hold up well.

as akfish says, at this point it's most likely those gears are worn. Replacing the gears will be simplest, or live with it..
nothing can be done once the gears are worn, no grease will fix it.

[jurelometer]

drag grease is not gear grease.. different purpose, different formulation.

If you don't mind, I would like to offer a clarification:

Greases that are suitable for lubricating carbon fiber drag washers have a high temperature  rating, usually a PTFE (trade name Teflon) additive, and most are synthetic oil based.  They are also suitable for general purpose reel greasing, including gears. I prefer to use the same grease everywhere to avoid getting any unsuitable grease in my drag washers. 

According to this SDS, Shimano Drag grease is mineral oil based  with a calcium sulfonate thickener.  Should be fine for general  purpose use, especially in a situation as undemanding as lubricating baitcaster gears.  The oil is the actual lubricant.  The thickener just keeps the oil where you need it. Calcium Sulfonate is the good stuff, suitable for wet and high heat environments:
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2300/2455/files/Disk_Drag_Grease-Eng.pdf?v=1683659731

———

Perhaps this is what DougK is referring to:

There are exceptions when you might want a thinner grease for gears, especially on a lightweight reel like a freshwater baitcaster.  The greases that are popular here for drag usage are  almost always NLGI 2, and some are on the sticky side. If you want something that provides less resistance on your gears, you can use a thinner version of the same product in some cases (e.g., Cal's standard to Cal's purple), thin it yourself with the same oil used in the grease (e.g., Super Lube), or use an entirely different product. A very lightweight reel with small gear teeth can feel bogged down a bit by a sticky NLGI 2, even if you are using it sparingly. But I don't see how this would cause greater wear.  If anything, it should tend to keep the gears lubricated over a longer period of time of time.

Getting back to the original post:

If you wind a typical modern small levelwind under load, it will wear more quickly.  The teeth are small, the  gear backlash is small, and it doesn't take much to pull the gears a small amount out of alignment, which greatly accelerates wear, even when well lubricated.

The other place to look is the levelwind assembly.  This can be the first to go.  If you  feel roughness you may also want to look at the worm and worm drive gears for signs of wear.

There is a tradeoff between making this class of reels originally feel smooth vs a bit bumpier but longer lasting. Longer lasting gears will have larger teeth with the accompanying greater backlash (freeplay).  The smoother they make it by reducing tooth size, the faster it will get grindy when subjected to load.  Consumers favor smoother, especially at time of purchase.

-J

[DougK]

If you don't mind, I would like to offer a clarification:

Greases that are suitable for lubricating carbon fiber drag washers have a high temperature  rating, usually a PTFE (trade name Teflon) additive, and most are synthetic oil based.  They are also suitable for general purpose reel greasing, including gears. I prefer to use the same grease everywhere to avoid getting any unsuitable grease in my drag washers. 

thanks - I didn't think the drag grease would be workable on gears, glad to know this..

[AmericanStriper]

It didn't matter if the level wind is cleaned and relubed. So the gears will need replacing. However I am hesitant to do this because it may result in repeated symptoms, and get the same strong winding feel after some time. So maybe I will also try using different grease and see if that will greatly reduce gear wear. Would you agree with this approach, or should something else should be done?