Modernizing a bamboo rod - questions and ideas

[JasonGotaProblem]

I want to do some surf fishing with a bamboo rod. I wanna build it as a conventional in a visually old fashioned style, using modern components. So I'm gonna do a cork grip with a modern fuji seat, and I wanna do modern fuji double footed guides on both sides of the blank.

so I'll need a tip guide that's either double sided (doesn't seem to exist as a modern component, this idea doesn't have enough demand it seems), or as a swiveling guide. Those definitely exist in roller form, but I don't see any as a ring guide. and that's where my attempt at brilliance comes in. What if I find a male ferrule of a useful size, and find a tip top that fits snugly over that. The idea would be to jam it down so it stays put, and twist it when it's time to flip the rod. Or attach the ferrule to the rod with glue that isn't affected by heat, and attach the tip guide to the ferrule with hot-melt tip glue. And when I need to flip it, just warm it up. After writing that out I realize I could potentially simplify matters by just attaching the tip guide to the blank with hot melt glue and warming it up to twist as needed. The reality is I probably won't fish the rod enough to develop a permanent curve, but ya never know. It could become a favorite.

Additional question: should the guides on these hex rods be mounted on a ridge, or a flat section?

What am I missing or failing to consider?

[MACflyer]

Sounds crazy, but very cool Jason. Try seller jbbowers12012 on eBay. He has some very unique tip tops including a triple that might work for your project. I did see a double tip, 180 degrees opposite rings, on eBay a while back, but don't see it now. I would probably mount guides over a ridge thinking it's stronger but really don't know.

[oldmanjoe]

There is a few ways to do this .  Are you using the two piece bamboo rod ?  Than it would be set up like this . You do have the option to use two different styles tip top , double sided or the screw top swivel tip top.    First 4 pictures.    Or one piece stick with ferrule at the reel seat to rotate the stick . 

[oc1]

The guides are always put on the flats.

Old fashioned style means there will only be two or three running guides.  Preferably, the guides would have agate or agatine inserts.

The old tip-tops like Joe pictured above with an agatine ring that sits perpendicular to the rod length and juts out a bit  do not have to be turned when the rod is flipped over.  I have a few old agatine guides and a tip-top if you want me to send them to you.

You'll also need a reel seat that is reversable.  A Tennessee style handle with the sliding rings will work on cork..

A hardwood handle has more weight than cork.  The extra weight in the handle will help balance the heavy tip weight (swing weight) and make it more comfortable to hold.  Also, a hardwood handle will need a ferrule to attach the blank, The ferrule can be twisted when the rod is flipped over so a conventional reel seat will work.

I'd do a stress test on vintage split bamboo before bothering to wrap it.  Sometimes split bamboo is so brittle that it's not worth trying. There are modern split bamboo blanks made in China that are reasonably prices.  They look just like vintage but still have their strength.

Using whole bamboo like Joe pictured above is a safer bet than split bamboo.  You can also buy new Calcutta cane from Frank's Cane and Rush Supply in Huntington Beach, CA.  He will cut them in half if needed to save on shipping cost.  He also has coils of ratan that could be used to make an old fashion ratan handle.

[ourford]

Here's some of the traditional tip tops on ebay nos.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/286584242949?_skw=bamboo+rod+tip+top&itmmeta=01K3RYB366A38CKE8JTN7BF16V&hash=item42b9c08305:g:CU8AAeSw6xxoLPOa&itmprp=enc%3AAQAKAAAA8FkggFvd1GGDu0w3yXCmi1esSY0eWiGS3cexlwyQx2YjkuZVgqPWyTRzRA3bDGc0TSq5qN25w5jdLza%2BbHKyLTTfWFjwGD5r3gITUVYSPCbyN1%2Bhtea3DluW7lnL8lGFrJZC1g1zLcxrJ4zatF55aK0ais9Qb1thZpz8JxqCUxQ70a1hE%2F5vKmBixg0iUy1dN1SOxy6j3tjWaNrlneMQ3tEoJBcKqF1ok36%2Fq%2FY04L5o99Lq3oVziIo2fB%2FEvF%2F5L%2F%2Bl8smot3CKCG51ynyj2wjyak2TtmbzSZ%2BVL8jpP66ttTQPMC3B0QLaB28JxnrwxQ%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR6KzrJ6eZg

Here's my old Montague Somers Point

[ourford]

Another one on ebay that'S stainless steel. Never seen one of them before.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/285798571387?_skw=bamboo+rod+tip+top&itmmeta=01K3RYB36AT5RHC8HG7GG7QF1E&hash=item428aec1d7b:g:FVoAAOSwzzpmDuVQ&itmprp=enc%3AAQAKAAAA8FkggFvd1GGDu0w3yXCmi1cinF5QJXBgUp4%2FUMc1dZROSlvNO8ptG8IUCsOj9H6Cu%2BitV8JDSm%2FhLU1jCv23joCfKdbftILI%2B1XC28XS5qPZT7HltPIvpDSPEuKhcMeKDm70sIjp4%2FyOluDEiIo35JjQlNHU6cLWkQZmvVaJMZTtIxIpelzF9dykGyPOsO3LOl9uNY3tXIomQNRwqPV8VV8Utiqj4%2FPPYn%2BnXSZmxMNrDvROKfIkx4UVPKrgdh4QF32om3XlzIcCtTSW2bNz0lcz2VcU41B0I0bGRMu74NcJfT2RVW3CLsXMRR5gqMhmDw%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR7azrJ6eZg

[JasonGotaProblem]

Ok so here's my crazy talk. Looking at the modern bamboo rods (there's a fella in China making nice ones) they all seem to be kind of short. 6-7'ish. I realized the "K brand" one I found that has 2 different configuration options, including the 3pc set up could use the middle section as the new lower section (the original lower section has a crack anyway) and I could just add a seat and be off to the races. I the. Took it further and realized the much narrower middle section to a different rod that came with that purchase has a lower diameter about the same as the top diameter of the other combination. So if I replaced the tip with a ferrule I could make a 3pc rod with a lighter tip. I've bent all the individual sections about 45° and they seem fine. I'm sure they'll be even better after a soak in some linseed or teak oil. I'll take some pics tonight to hopefully make that word salad I just wrote a bit clearer.

[oldmanjoe]

Sounds crazy, but very cool Jason. Try seller jbbowers12012 on eBay. He has some very unique tip tops including a triple that might work for your project. I did see a double tip, 180 degrees opposite rings, on eBay a while back, but don't see it now. I would probably mount guides over a ridge thinking it's stronger but really don't know.

I second for Bowers , he has a lot of old guides . 
I do have a few two sided tip tops if you go that route . Just give the size need  , a little short on running guides .

[JasonGotaProblem]

Ok I did a badly drawn diagram. When laughing at my handwriting please remember I've broken every finger and most knuckles in that hand at some point in my life.

[oc1]

Another one on ebay that'S stainless steel. Never seen one of them before.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/285798571387?_skw=bamboo+rod+tip+top&itmmeta=01K3RYB36AT5RHC8HG7GG7QF1E&hash=item428aec1d7b:g:FVoAAOSwzzpmDuVQ&itmprp=enc%3AAQAKAAAA8FkggFvd1GGDu0w3yXCmi1cinF5QJXBgUp4%2FUMc1dZROSlvNO8ptG8IUCsOj9H6Cu%2BitV8JDSm%2FhLU1jCv23joCfKdbftILI%2B1XC28XS5qPZT7HltPIvpDSPEuKhcMeKDm70sIjp4%2FyOluDEiIo35JjQlNHU6cLWkQZmvVaJMZTtIxIpelzF9dykGyPOsO3LOl9uNY3tXIomQNRwqPV8VV8Utiqj4%2FPPYn%2BnXSZmxMNrDvROKfIkx4UVPKrgdh4QF32om3XlzIcCtTSW2bNz0lcz2VcU41B0I0bGRMu74NcJfT2RVW3CLsXMRR5gqMhmDw%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR7azrJ6eZg

Those are really nice because they are BIG.  Using Calcutta cane you will want to cut the tip down to about 3/8 to 1/2 inch diameter for surf casting.  Anything much smaller will be a limp noodle.  The canes are about 20 feet long when imported so there's plenty of excess to play with.

[JasonGotaProblem]

My question is do you guys use a conventional or baitcaster on a rod with a tip like that? If so I just can't picture what, besides a guide close to the tip, would keep the line from rubbing right here? In looking at pictures of these rods intact, I don't see any with guides close to the tip.

[oldmanjoe]

   With a conventional reel , yes they rub there .  Put a spinner on and the problem goes away .
          Out of twenty something boo sticks , only two left with tuliped tip tops for that reason .

[jurelometer]

Good advice from Steve/oc1.

IMHO, I don't see this as an exercise with a high probability of getting something that casts halfway decently and does not self destruct, but it could still be a useful learning experience.

If you want to hack a modern tip ring and legs to a sleeve that fits over the bamboo tip, silver solder could be your friend, as long as the parts are stainless steel.

Done properly, it is amazingly strong and reasonably resistant to saltwater exposure.  Just requires a mini butane torch, a bit of silver solder wire and some special flux.  Useful for putting rings on hooks, which might be something for you to try when fishing larger live baits. The long range guys lurve their ringed hooks and jigs/irons.

I have even used silver solder to reattach a handle on a stainless teapot.  And I suck at welding. It is a useful skill to have if you make saltwater tackle and occasionally other stuff too.

My question is do you guys use a conventional or baitcaster on a rod with a tip like that? If so I just can't picture what, besides a guide close to the tip, would keep the line from rubbing right here? In looking at pictures of these rods intact, I don't see any with guides close to the tip.

I suspect that they were more concerned with basic functionality than with squeezing out maximum performance.  Plus, the less that the rod  is bending when under load, the less guides you need.  They didn't have nearly as much drag available to really load up the rod. Mebbe they also used low rod angles to protect the bamboo?

If you look at the more performance sensitive vintage bamboo  that HAS to bend a lot (fly rods) you will see something closer to modern guide layout.

-J

[JasonGotaProblem]

I'm gonna be using modern guides, and I'm likely gonna be using a few more than you find on the original builds. So right now it feels like the options are to either get really creative on the tips, or put a guide close to it. Neither are bad options. I recognize that I'm seeking to do something very non standard and that will require some improv.

It's been months since I've built a rod due to family commitments and spatial limitations. I'm kind of trying to give myself something really interesting to get me excited about it again.

[steelfish]

I have never had a bamboo fishing rod in my hands, do they feel like "broom stick" or they have a nice flex (better for your back)?

Nice project Jason