External Drag Access on High Speed Senators Questions

[MACflyer]

Picked up a couple older 113H together that look exactly alike, even the corrosion lol, except for head plates: one has external drag access. Pretty sure Penn came out with the high speed models in the early 1960s, and I'm thinking the external access side plate was used first. Have a couple questions I can't seem to find.
1 What year(s) did 113H go to internal drag access?
2 Did 112H 3/0 ever have external access side plate? Pretty sure I've worked on a 114H 6/0 with external access plate.


Thanks, Rick

[Brewcrafter]

There are Ohana here that have far more knowledge and I am sure will chime in soon.  All of my 113H are the external drag models and I have two 6/0 (a 114 and a 114H) that are also externals.  A few of these were purchased NIB (anybody remember Fedco?) and I can say in my own uninformed experience you are looking at external drags up through the 1970's, I am guessing that is about when the change took place.  Others with more experience or Michael's excellent series of books on history of Penn reels will no doubt have a definitive answer. - john

[alantani]

external access was an interesting idea, but it did not allow for removal of the main gear, so you could never get access to the hard fiber washer underneath that gear.  sal liked teflon, but i always favored the hard carbon fiber drag washer that came from smoothdrag.com. 

no sure about the years that these reels were available.  i went looking through the schematics and mystic and couldn't find any info. 

https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Penn113H.aspx

[alantani]

the 112h never did have external access, as far as i know.  i don't recall a 114 that did, either. 

[Brewcrafter]

A couple of old 114s. - john

[oc1]

On the bigger stuff, external access appeared some time in the 1960's but did not last long.  My recollection is they were gone again by 1967.

[MACflyer]

Thanks for the info so far. Now I'm wondering if the brake lining drag was exclusive to these side plates? The 113H and 114H reels I've seen with brake lining drag washers were outside access.

[foakes]

I have always thought that the external drags were so an angler could change to new drags quickly and more easily without taking the reel apart.

The drag material of olden days was not nearly as good as the Carbon Fiber greased and SS washers we have today (made popular by Alan!).

And few have the expertise, time, tools, and ability to take a reel down when the bite is on and hot.

Back up rigs are the ticket in that case.

Best, Fred

[oc1]

Thanks for the info so far. Now I'm wondering if the brake lining drag was exclusive to these side plates? The 113H and 114H reels I've seen with brake lining drag washers were outside access.

No, the grey brake liner drag washers were used both during and after the external access side plates.  Bur, I don't know when they switched from leather to brake liner material.

[Brewcrafter]

Thanks for the info so far. Now I'm wondering if the brake lining drag was exclusive to these side plates? The 113H and 114H reels I've seen with brake lining drag washers were outside access.

No, the grey brake liner drag washers were used both during and after the external access side plates.  Bur, I don't know when they switched from leather to brake liner material.

OC nails it.  I think it is just a question of Penn using whatever they felt was the best friction material for their applications at the time.  I have removed those old asbestos biscuits from many Penn's from that period that were never offered with "external access" sideplates. - john

[Maxed Out]

 Penn had external drag access in many models starting in 1930's. The 12/0 senator was introduced in 1937, and it had external drag access. Many other models followed suit, and then were phased out in the 1950's, but Penn kept that going on a few models. The concept of external drag access was so the average person could put new drag washers in, but if the reel needed full servicing, Penn would want the reel sent to the factory for servicing, or a factory authorized service center. Nowadays the internet can guide a uneducated person thru the process of fully servicing your Penn reel. My local factory authorized Penn service shop stopped servicing Penns 10-15 years ago. The owner kindly gave me a bunch of parts they had in stock, and they no longer service any reels. A customer comes in the tackle shop and wants his reel fixed, the owner says its a $40 used reel, and cost to repair coukd reach $150+, but here in our display case are several brand new reels for under $100. So the customer would just buy a new reel, instead of spending a wad of money fixing an old used reel

 Hard to put exact years of production on each reel, but eventually that was phased out on all penn models.

[Maxed Out]

 Penn had external drag access in many models starting in 1930's. The 12/0 senator was introduced in 1937, and it had external drag access. Many other models followed suit, and then were phased out in the 1950's, but Penn kept that going on a few models. The concept of external drag access was so the average person could put new drag washers in, but if the reel needed full servicing, Penn would want the reel sent to the factory for servicing, or a factory authorized service center. Nowadays the internet can guide a uneducated person thru the process of fully servicing your Penn reel. My local factory authorized Penn service shop stopped servicing Penns 10-15 years ago. The owner kindly gave me a bunch of parts they had in stock, and they no longer service any reels. A customer comes in the tackle shop and wants his reel fixed, the owner says its a $40 used reel, and cost to repair coukd reach $150+, but here in our display case are several brand new reels for under $100. So the customer would just buy a new reel, instead of spending a wad of money fixing an old used reel

 Hard to put exact years of production on each reel, but eventually external access to drag washers was phased out on all penn models.

[Brewcrafter]

And those two 6/0 have a pretty clear provenance, purchased at Fedco in San Bernardino and I am pretty sure it was between 1970-1974 since that was when I was in Cub Scouts.  Now, of course that can be meaningless for how long those reels languished in the supply chain before ever making it to the display.  I remember all the brightly colored Abu baitcasters as well.  There are no stickers on the boxes alas....

[Keta]

Every 349/349H I have seen had the external drag access. 349 gears can be pulled through the side plate, 349H gears can not.