So...What do we call them?

[JasonGotaProblem]

Anti reverse but no drag is a winch. I'm trying to remember the name of the early "drag" that was an attachment on the handle of a knuckle buster.

This is a fun thread. We are trying to posthumously categorize these reels based on what they don't have. At the time they were described differently. Like my old hendryx: a pillar-style reel. The Penn 165; a freespool reel.

To me, the direct drive-ness is that there's no drag in between. In modern senator for example. Or an 80 year old one, it's the same. Loosely speaking the handle turns the drag which turns the main gear which turns the pinion and thus the spool. In a DD reel, as I define them, the handle is permanently connected to the main gear. You turn the handle/main; and the pinion, and therefore the spool, turns a set number of times every time. Where a senator with a loose drag and a big fish could see handle turns that don't move the fish.

[Maxed Out]

 A direct drive reel would be when the handle is directly connected to the spool shaft. Penn reels with no star drag, still have a main gear and a pinion gear

[Gfish]

This is a kinda fun thread. I have 1920's Ocean City that's called a "FREE SPOOL". All the goodies except a clicker. So it doesn't count, but is the oldest I've seen with that term and it's the model name.

[Paul Roberts]

Yes, fun thread.

quang tran, but I'd have to call mine a "bass reel". 

Tom, I didn't have to go into that winch dive. Jason did it for me.

Steve, thanks for the faith you have in my judgement.

Maxed Out, but the Shakespeare Direct Drive models -that started this whole issue- are DD onto the worm gear. The spool is connected to the handle via gear train. So even it is not a true DD mechanism, according to the engineering definition. No I'm not expecting a rebuttal. Just sweeping you into my quandary. You see I published an article in The Reel News for ORCA and had some feedback (a well meaning correction from someone I hold in esteem) that my use of the term DD was erroneous and referred to the Shakespeare Direct Drive line of reels. But, apparently that isn't really wholly correct either.

J, there were a few: the William's Drag, and Cub Handle come to mind. The posthumous point is interesting and true. It's the inevitable job of those in the future to sort out the past I suppose. What do they say, "Those that do not remember the past are destined to re-live it." Is that what we're doing here?

I like your thinking on DD'ness. Functionally speaking, it works, at least for the vast majority of fishers/casters, collectors out there. Pretty much sums up, well, why I used the term so comfortably. Until I was busted! But it turns out the truth underlying it all is that none of our reels, save winches, use a true DD mechanism. The quandary is having a correct term that isn't a mouthful, like knuckle-busting thumb-burner?

I guess I'm just going to have to call em "old casting reels...aka "knuckle busters".

The easy part is identifying a "modern" casting reel: AR, Drag, FS. Many modern casters would add in ABL (thinking magnetics and DC) but effective ABL is not new. Tournament distance casters using the old reels could throw a stock bass reel (albeit supertuned) over 200ft. I've hit 165 myself (Pfl 1894L, super-tuned) and probably could break 200 if I decided to get obsessive about it. But I don't tend to get obsessive about stuff.

[quang tran]

Bass reel ? may be 40 years ago . Roland Martin use Ambassadeur to fish with Johnson spoon but still drop to spinning when fish with Rapalas . I can't cast unweighted worm with this reel

[Paul Roberts]

I use both too. Probably spinning more than casting, overall. However, my "old casting reels" can cast unweighted worms. But, esp with slim finesse sized worms, certainly not as far as a braid filled spinning reel. Then again, I more apt to fish an "unweighted" finesse worm on a drop-shot rig.

I generally prefer casting reels for heavier duty applications: heavy cover, heavy weights, big fish, lures that pull. Burning spinnerbaits and crankbaits can be a lot of work for spinning reels, not to mention my wrists. So far, I'm going easy with most of my "old casting reels" as they are not likely as durable as modern casting reels. So I am using them for Light to Medium applications so far. I do have some Pflueger 1573 Supreme's that have been described as "nearly indestructible". Remains to be seen on that.

[Sonnett]

Each to his own. I very seldom use a spinning reel these days, though I grew up on one until age 16. Today with the exception of a Coxe 25N, I use no free spool casting reels. There was a day (I'm 82) when a free spool bass-sized casting reel was rare, though saltwater reels were often free spool. Now that modern casting reels are the norm, I find myself explaining to younger fellows that I use only "non free spool" reels--LOL.

[quang tran]

Nice rod and reel and nice bass too , Sir

[Benni3]

That's impressive,,,, big bass,,,, i got 20 some knucklebusters but don't fish them

[Gfish]

Looks like the good ol' "backwards bomber" Sonnett. A great deep diving crawdad imitation. Correction; hard too see, but magnified it doesn't look like one. Has 2 sets of eyes?
How about; non-free-spool multiplier. Maybe that accounts for the pinion-main gear combo?

[JasonGotaProblem]

So I'm gonna argue that since the term "direct drive" is something of a misnomer for all but the most basic fly reels, on a purely technical level, including that Shakespeare model, then to me it's still fair game to use for any casting reel without a gear sleeve.

There's a lot of terminology out there that isn't technically accurate at to the purists on its most basic level. It shows up a lot in my industry that there's a lot of terms that just stuck.

A wide format LaserJet printer is still called a plotter. Construction plans are often still referred to as blueprints even though ammonia hasn't been involved, and nothing is blue, for decades. I hear the term "directional bore" a lot. but technically it's either a directional drill or a jack and bore. 2 very different things, but the term is still around. Theres a million examples. If someone asks for a bandaid but you give them a generic/different brand adhesive bandage they're not gonna choose to bleed out because they asked for a bandaid and you failed them. You can go further. If you knock on the door and someone says "who is it" saying "it's me" is wrong. The only technically sound answer is "it is I." But I feel like that'll make any reasonable person less likely to open the door not more so. The fact that one can make a technical argument against a term (a really flawed argument in this case) doesn't mean the term is going away.
"No! It's only a directional bore if you're using drill bits from one company who misses the name in marketing material 80 years ago." That doesn't make a damn bit of sense.

So I'm gonna come full circle and say that the idea that an early multiplier reel can't be called a "direct drive" reel bc a small handful of Shakespeare reels tried to claim the name for something that's also not technically"direct drive", is utter horse (edit: I phrased it the way I did to intentionally be divisive and stir the pot but I'm changing the ending because I don't want to sound rude to people whose opinion I value)

[Maxed Out]

IMHO, the term direct drive means one turn of the handle equals one turn of the spool. So either the handle is directly connected to the spool shaft, or the spool perimeter

In the pacific northwest, and western canadian coast, the most common reels used for salmon fishing are all direct drive, and also have a drag knob. When a fish runs, the knobs spin with the spool, and no, its not a fly reel, and no "casting" with this reel. This type of reel is where the term "knucklebuster" comes from. Anyone that fishes this kind of reel knows why its called a knucklebuster...including myself. I've been fishing these reels for 35+ years for salmon, and theres no "pump and reel", its just reeling, and knowing when to let go of the knob, when the fish decides to run

I took a knob off this one, so I dont get 2 knobs smacking my fingers when a salmon rips the knob from my fingers

Shimano,Daiwa, and Islander are the manufacturers of this type of reel. They catch lotta salmon, large and small

[Benni3]

Ok,,,it's part of the challenge using different antique gear,,,, if not just buy a raptor,,,last trip to the lake i had a 30's bridge city and a 1914 bamboo rod,,,but the raptor is 2 speed,,,,

[Brewcrafter]

Great thread, and a lot of wisdom here.  One of my other bad habits (other than spending too much on fishing equipment) is to peruse classic "used book stores" and swoop up old books regarding sportfishing (and other stuff).  An older term that I have seen, and that I think relates directly to Ted's observation, is that back in the day it seemed common that some reels were referred to as "multipliers", I assume referencing that relationship of a main gear/pinion as opposed to a direct setup? - john

[Gfish]

Yeah. For me it would come down to a true direct-drive(Ted's example), or a multiplier-direct drive with 2 gears and no spool disengagement option, but this example with 2 gears would not be an "exact" direct drive with a straight handle to spool connection.