Surfmaster 150 - Getting it Ready to Fish

[work2fish]

I'm relatively new to the vintage reel hobby. I'm in it to get reels to use for my fishing, rather than as a collector. I started with a few Ambassadeurs, which work very well for the catfish and carp fishing I love to do with my son. Then I got a Penn 706z, which I plan to use for the surf fishing trips we go on a couple times each year. Maybe I could also get a large spinning rod and try the 706z for catfishing in the river. Last week I got 2 Surfmasters (150 and 250) from the auction site. I plan to use the 150 for catfish, carp, and occasional surf fishing. The 250 might be too large for fresh water, so I will probably save that one for the surf. These are my first Penn conventionals, so I am excited to work on them!

The 150 came with a plastic spool. I've been on the lookout for an aluminum spool (29L-150) for a few days, but haven't found one. I've also looked for a cheap 150, 160, or 165 that already has an aluminum spool, but the ones I see for sale seem to have plastic spools or the heavy metal spools. Will keep looking every few days.

I will post pictures of the process of getting the 150 ready for fishing here, but first I have a few questions...

I've read that mono will sometimes crush the old Penn plastic spools. I plan to use mono main line. Would the plastic spool be ok if I back the mono main line with Dacron line? If so, where can I get Dacron line? Should I use the Dacron fly line backing I see for sale at various places, or is there another kind of Dacron one available?

Did Newell ever make an aluminum spool that would fit a 150/160/165? If so, what is its part number?

Thanks!
Mark

[JasonGotaProblem]

If you find a penn-made aluminum spool for one of these buy a lottery ticket that day.

There's some size 100 width spools in aluminum out there. But you'd need a 30-49 base and those are still out there but getting hard to come by.

https://www.prochallenger.com/product/pc-29l-100-aluminum-spool-for-penn-reels/56?cs=true&cst=custom

If you wanna continue down the rabbit hole Get yourself a steel gear sleeve (the absolute weakest point on these reels) and a carbon drag kit. You might still be able to find some 5 stack kits, these take the penn 60 sized drags. Aluminum Frame bars are also available and very well warranted for these. Newell made some too.

[Swami805]

Dacron or braid would be fine for backing on a plastic spool
I don't know if Newell made a spool but I wouldn't be surprised if they did, probably not many though since those weren't hugely popular
Tiburon made frames for them if you want to go that route

[Vintage Offshore Tackle]

Here is a good used Newell aluminum 150 spool. It is $20 plus $6 for shipping by USPS Ground Advantage with tracking.

If you want it please PM me your shipping address and let me know how you would like to send payment.

Thank you,
Randy

[work2fish]

If you find a penn-made aluminum spool for one of these buy a lottery ticket that day.

Hmm... Doesn't sound promising. I've seen them for squidders, and for 155s and 200s, but the 150/160/165 size doesn't seem as popular.

If you wanna continue down the rabbit hole Get yourself a steel gear sleeve (the absolute weakest point on these reels) and a carbon drag kit.

Already ordered carbontex washers from smoothdrag. Are the stock gear sleeves particularly weak? I'll have to look into the steel ones, maybe just for fun since this is my first Penn conventional.

Thanks for the info, Jason!

[work2fish]

Here is a good used Newell aluminum 150 spool. It is $20 plus $6 for shipping by USPS Ground Advantage with tracking.

Bingo! Thanks, Randy! I will PM you for payment instructions.

Mark

[Vintage Offshore Tackle]

Mark, here's the Newell set that I mentioned in our PM.

[JasonGotaProblem]

Do it! Everyone on this forum who has ever bought anything from Randy will vouch for him. Myself included.

And yes, the sleeve is a must if you intend to fish above about 10# of drag. With that kit and the sleeve you can crank it all the way down with your new carbon drags and probably not have to worry about hardware failures.

[jurelometer]

Do it! Everyone on this forum who has ever bought anything from Randy will vouch for him. Myself included.

And yes, the sleeve is a must if you intend to fish above about 10# of drag. With that kit and the sleeve you can crank it all the way down with your new carbon drags and probably not have to worry about hardware failures.

The top of the stock gear sleeve will get rounded off if you wind under heavier load , making the handle arm loose.  It is usually the first point of failure under load on the classic Penn reels. On a Squidder (which is about the same size), you will round off the gear sleeve if you are  frequently  winding at around 4 lbs of load or so. A stainless gear sleeve will help here.  Changing the gear sleeves, frames, etc, will not help much in increasing the maximum drag before failure, but switching to greased carbon fiber drag washers will make for a smoother drag which will allow you to fish effectively with a higher drag setting than you would with a stock setup. 

I wouldn't fish one of these reels with over mebbe 6 lbs of drag, but that is plenty. People have been catching big fish in the surf on that exact reel model  for something like 70 years and counting.

The plastic spools fail from the force of the nylon mono trying to expand back to the original diameter after being wound on the reel under load. Plastic spools are lighter, with less inertia, so they can be better for casting.  They also won't corrode in saltwater. One option is to load the plastic spool up all the way with braid which is not so elastic, and less likely to damage the spool. Casting is a bit trickier, but you can get more distance than mono with an educated thumb. Nothing wrong with getting an aluminum spool and loading it with mono, if that is your preference.  I wouldn't fish mono in a plastic spool (even with backing) and expect to get a long lifespan out of the spool.

Either Dacron or modern PE braid will work for backing or a full spooling.  Dacron packaged for fly line backing would work, but it is the same stuff for a higher price.  Beware of old used Dacron.  Unlike PE braid, it can get pretty weak over time.

-J

[JasonGotaProblem]

4 pounds stock? Wow. I guess I was thinking jigmaster numbers.

I can tell you that with frame bars, metal spool, steel sleeve, steel main, steel handle blade, and a 5 stack... I was using it a lot closer to 15# with no sign of trouble or excessive wear. I used it to winch in a black tip shark that stood absolutely no chance.

But then I strengthened everything that bears any load. But now that I have a Newell 220 with 5:1 gears I don't really use the surfmaster anymore. Still love the reel though

[Vintage Offshore Tackle]

Do it! Everyone on this forum who has ever bought anything from Randy will vouch for him. Myself included.

And yes, the sleeve is a must if you intend to fish above about 10# of drag. With that kit and the sleeve you can crank it all the way down with your new carbon drags and probably not have to worry about hardware failures.

Thank you!

[jurelometer]

4 pounds stock? Wow. I guess I was thinking jigmaster numbers.

I can tell you that with frame bars, metal spool, steel sleeve, steel main, steel handle blade, and a 5 stack... I was using it a lot closer to 15# with no sign of trouble or excessive wear. I used it to winch in a black tip shark that stood absolutely no chance.

But then I strengthened everything that bears any load. But now that I have a Newell 220 with 5:1 gears I don't really use the surfmaster anymore. Still love the reel though

4 lb winding load, not drag.   Try dropping a 15 lb downrigger ball off a dock and straight winding it in with a surfmaster (that you don't mind damaging). I don't  think that most folk are even strong enough.

For this type of reel design (gear sleeve star drag with helical gears), the reel can usually handle a higher drag setting if the fish is not taking line. The damage is more likely to occur on these reels when the gears are turning.

Once line is going out, the helical gears are transferring a decent amount of the radial load  (torque) into axial load (along the shaft).  Because the helical tooth face is curved, this eventually drives the gear sleeve (only supported on one side by a pin peened into the bridge plate)  off alignment. The main gear angles until just the edge of the tooth is engaging, at which point you shred teeth.  Or the ratchet(which is also on the gear sleeve) loses alignment with the dog, and you get failure there.

This can also happen when winding under load, usually at a lower load level than just taking drag. So unless the drag overheats and locks up, we usually  trash the reel by winding against a the higher load that a higher drag setting enables.

My failures on these type of reels were all rounded gear sleeves and shredded main gears.  I have heard of dog failures.

Regarding drag: Like all useful debates, we need to agree on definitions.  When we talk about the drag capacity of a reel, it is useful to note whether we are stopping a fish without it taking line, only shorter bursts of taking line, or an extended run.

I expect that a Surfmaster could survive a short run every now and then above the limits that I would personally recommend. It will wear out faster, but may be fine for someone  who fishes infrequently.  I would expect to see a wreck the first time you tried  a 150 lb yellowfin doing  a 250 yard high speed run against 15 lbs of drag on a Surfmaster.  So I personally would not claim a 15 lb drag capacity for this reel.

-J

[bja105]

Work2Fish, I can't add anything useful to wjat the others have said. I a newbie to these reels, too. I have had better luck buying the reels I find that have Aluminum spools, and swapping parts with other reels if they need help. I found an Aluminum spool Jigmaster on Mercari and a Squidder at a flea market. Keep an eye out when you go to the beach. There are a lot more of these reels in saltwater areas. I've done well at flea markets in Florida and Marketplace in North Carolina.

I just think it's funny that I am also in the Pittsburgh area, primarily target carp and cats with vintage reels, and go surf fishing a bunch. Convetionals and levelwinds work best for my style of carp fishing. I put it in freespool, clicker on. When I get a take I put it in gear.
I'm originaly from O'Hara and Aspinwall. Now I live near Punxsutawney and work around Pittsburgh, Kittanning, and Butler. I fish the Allegheny and tributaries mostly, plus some of the lakes.

[work2fish]

Here are some pics of the reel as it came. It is pretty clean! I was going to take it apart to check the current drag washers before ordering carbontex, but I realized I needed to order an Alan Tani Penn wrench first. I also ordered the Newell set from Randy.

When I turn the crank or spin the spool on this reel it is very smooth. I was surprised how smooth it feels, since it has bushings instead of roller bearings.

I can see that the anti-reverse ratchet is brass-colored, so I didn't luck into one with a steel gear sleeve. I'll probably stick with the stock one for now. My search for a steel one led me to Tom's Cortez Conversions site. Wow! There are a lot of beautiful pieces of metal there, but the 98-155 sleeve is out of stock. I also discovered that the stock sleeves are very inexpensive. If one of those gets rounded, does it cause damage to other components?

Mark

[work2fish]

The top of the stock gear sleeve will get rounded off if you wind under heavier load , making the handle arm loose.  It is usually the first point of failure under load on the classic Penn reels. On a Squidder (which is about the same size), you will round off the gear sleeve if you are  frequently  winding at around 4 lbs of load or so. A stainless gear sleeve will help here.

Thanks for all the info, jurelometer! Sounds like a good argument for the pump and reel technique.

Mark