Felt Drags

[Scattergun2570]

Its been a very long time since I`ve posted..try not to hold it against me.. Anyway..I was listening to someone talk about felt drags,and he was insisting that felt is absolutely smoother than Carbon.. Anyone use felt here for anything,,and also ,do you cut them yourself,and where do you get the felt from?  Thanks

[jurelometer]

Its been a very long time since I`ve posted..try not to hold it against me.. Anyway..I was listening to someone talk about felt drags,and he was insisting that felt is absolutely smoother than Carbon.. Anyone use felt here for anything,,and also ,do you cut them yourself,and where do you get the felt from?  Thanks

It depends on situation. Felt is easily compressible, making it  more tolerant of misalignment at lighter drag settings. But it doesn't handle higher clamping loads or heat, as well as carbon fiber.

For example, it is possible that if you took a felt washer off an inexpensive lightweight freshwater spinning reel, and replaced it with an un greased, carbon fiber, the  drag  could get much stickier.

But if you  replaced the carbon fiber dry washers with felt on a big saltwater reel, bad things are going to happen as soon as you need some drag.

My opinion:  Just about any good quality large or small modern reel (and some older ones) that is not worn out will do just fine with greased carbon fiber.  Or even dry carbon  fiber if it stays clean.  The sliding surfaces just need to be well aligned.  They use carbon fiber in small trout fly reels that a need to protect  2 lb tippet.

-J
 

[MarkT]

Do you want ultimate smoothness or drag? I'll take greased carbon fiber drags 8 days a week!

[Keta]

Do you want ultimate smoothness or drag? I'll take greased carbon fiber drags 8 days a week!

Yup.

[oc1]

It depends on the reel and the application.  As Dave said, felt will be smoother for low drag settings (a few pounds or so), but will not be able to provide enough friction for higher drag settings (> 10 lbs for sure).  I wouldn't hesitate to use felt for any BFS set-up.  Three pounds of drag is plenty for bonefish, papio, seatrout, small reds, HSB, LMB, trout and stuff like that.

The best felt for a reel is Marino wool' versus the less expensive synthetic felt..  Wool felt will saturate quickly and hold oil much better than poly.  Wool can also be manufactured at a higher density than synthetic felt without the use of any sort of binder.  The synthetic binder makes it even more difficult to saturate and hold oil..  Wool hairs have microscopic scales on them that hold them firmly together.  Beaver felt would be even better if you could find it.

Both wool and synthetic felt can be found in small sheets at a craft store.

[Scattergun2570]

It depends on the reel and the application.  As Dave said, felt will be smoother for low drag settings (a few pounds or so), but will not be able to provide enough friction for higher drag settings (> 10 lbs for sure).  I wouldn't hesitate to use felt for any BFS set-up.  Three pounds of drag is plenty for bonefish, papio, seatrout, small reds, HSB, LMB, trout and stuff like that.

The best felt for a reel is Marino wool' versus the less expensive synthetic felt..  Wool felt will saturate quickly and hold oil much better than poly.  Wool can also be manufactured at a higher density than synthetic felt without the use of any sort of binder.  The synthetic binder makes it even more difficult to saturate and hold oil..  Wool hairs have microscopic scales on them that hold them firmly together.  Beaver felt would be even better if you could find it.

Both wool and synthetic felt can be found in small sheets at a craft store.

I don`t need much drag,,just Summer Flounder. But,I have this sheet I got from Michaels..basic as the tag says..I dont know if they have the Merino..or anything else for that matter..but how do you cut them to size,,is a punch set used?

[oc1]

If there is no punch set, you can get by with just a pair of cuticle scissors.

[jurelometer]

It would be useful to know what reel the OP was considering putting felt in. 

I would also be curious as to who this person is that was claiming that felt was "smoother", and how they came to this conclusion, whether the CF was greased, etc.

It depends on the reel and the application.  As Dave said, felt will be smoother for low drag settings (a few pounds or so), but will not be able to provide enough friction for higher drag settings (> 10 lbs for sure).  I wouldn't hesitate to use felt for any BFS set-up.  Three pounds of drag is plenty for bonefish, papio, seatrout, small reds, HSB, LMB, trout and stuff like that.

That's not what I said, or at least not what I was trying to say.  Felt may be a necessity in certain reels, and I could see it working out well in low demand situations  ( I would have guessed two or three lbs max), but I don't see it as a general  improvement over CF, even at lower drag settings.

If you want the smoothest possible drag materials, you want something not too easily deformable, durable, with consistent density, with a very consistent surface, and a very small difference between static and kinetic coefficients of friction. And you want something that will not be affected by contamination, so it will stay smooth.  This doesn't really describe felt. My vote would be Rulon against stainless steel, providing that the drag assembly is very well aligned, and you don't need tons of drag.  You just can't stick Rulon into any reel.

To repeat: Due to its compressibility, felt can be smoother when the mating surfaces are not well aligned. This misalignment can due to reel design, manufacturing quality, or wear.  Misalignment can be more pronounced at very low drag settings, as there might not be enough clamping  load to pull all the drag surfaces into full alignment. But felt as an  upgrade should be the exception unless you are dealing with some sort of combination of very minimal drag requirements and an older or lower quality reels.

One other thing that I forgot to mention is that felt might have some vibration dampening effects (similar to cork, but probably not as effective).  Again, as the quality of the reel increases, the importance of vibration dampening decreases.

And as I also noted, most modern trout sized fly reels use carbon fiber, even the very high end products, and these reels drags are protecting very  light tippet (2lb is not uncommon).  So carbon fiber can be plenty smooth at very low settings as well. It depends on the reel.

Felt may be a necessity in some reels, and that should usually be reels that originally came with felt.  It might also be sufficient on other reels at light enough drag settings and/or shorter runs.  Once the demands are small enough,  lots of materials will work. But I would hardly call felt an upgrade for a decent reel  that originally came with carbon fiber.

Interesting to know that Steve prefers merino felt over synthetic.  I know very little about felt, but higher density would definitely be preferable for drag washers.

Wool is a polymer, and if the sheep was born after 1960, you could market merino  felt drag washers as constructed with a "Special High Denisity Denisity Space Age Polymer".

-J

[oc1]

Sorry if you think I took you name in vain Dave, but I was agreeing that "It depends on situation. Felt is easily compressible, making it  more tolerant of misalignment at lighter drag settings. But it doesn't handle higher clamping loads or heat, as well as carbon fiber. For example, it is possible that if you took a felt washer off an inexpensive lightweight freshwater spinning reel, and replaced it with an un greased, carbon fiber, the drag could get much stickier."

Felting is an interesting process that goes back several millennia.  It only worked with animal hair because the microscopic scales on hair interlock thereby securely holding the whole mass together.  Synthetic fibers do not have the scales so the only way to make them felt together is to add a binding material that is akin to varnish to stick the fibers together.

Delrin is another material that makes for a smoother drag than woven carbon fiber when you do not need a lot of clamping force.  But,, Delrin does not compress so there is little to no range in clamping force. available.  Personally, I use the pad of my thumb as drag material.  It is compressible, can be very smooth, does not need grease, but cannot tolerate heat build-up at all..

[happyhooker]

If felt is on a reel when I get it, and not totally trashed, I usually reuse it.  I have also made felt disks from the craft felt you can get at any craft store.  Oil it for use.  No issues, although my freshwater angling does not usually demand particularly high drag settings.

Frank

[Midway Tommy]

If felt is on a reel when I get it, and not totally trashed, I usually reuse it.  I have also made felt disks from the craft felt you can get at any craft store.  Oil it for use.  No issues, although my freshwater angling does not usually demand particularly high drag settings.

Frank

Yeah, Frank, you're right. Us freshwater guys are pretty lucky. We don't generally require ultra high drag setting and/or requirements so most drag washer materials will suffice as long as they start and remain smooth throughout the play and fight action.