Braid fishing line lubricant.

[Flat Top]

How often does it need to be reapplied and how do you coat the line down to the bottom of the spool?

When I spool my reels with fresh line I will fish it a couple of times, then when dry I walk off half the spool and and spray the silicone to the bottom half of the line  with a good soaking. Then I reel in the line and spray the top half of the line with a good soaking. After that I just touch up the spooled reel with a light coat every couple of outings. Then I fish the line after it is dry. The silicone really soaks into the line and the bottom half only needs to be treated once for my purposes. If you are using most of your line then the bottom half of the line would need to be treated more often.

[Benni3]

The brand that sells the best is KVD  it is a water base polymer no smell no chemicals thats bad for the environment,,,,so it might be ok,,,,but the only way to know is a scientific test out in the field,,,,,

[Flat Top]

The brand that sells the best is KVD  it is a water base polymer no smell no chemicals thats bad for the environment,,,,so it might be ok,,,,but the only way to know is a scientific test out in the field,,,,,

Food grade silicone is odorless and when dried on the line cannot be washed off in water. I am unfamiliar with KVD but am looking forward to your test results.

[jurelometer]

The brand that sells the best is KVD  it is a water base polymer no smell no chemicals thats bad for the environment,,,,so it might be ok,,,,but the only way to know is a scientific test out in the field,,,,,

Food grade silicone is odorless and when dried on the line cannot be washed off in water. I am unfamiliar with KVD but am looking forward to your test results.

KVD comes from a tiny (1-6 employees, 250-980K revenue if the business tracking sites are accurate) LLC named Dynovatech, which offers a family of plastic protectant products, including an Armor All competitor.  These products (Armor All, Aerospace 303, etc.) use silicone oil.  Silicone oil will absorb into the surface of many plastics, including nylon and PVC (vinyl), but not UHMWPE.  Silicone oil does not dry out when you spray it, it needs to absorb into something.  My guess is that if it is disappearing after you spray it onto the braid, it is getting absorbed into the waxy coating trapped between the fibers.  Which is not a bad thing. It wont do much for the surface, but UHMWPE surface is already super smooth.  It will probably help prevent fiber fracture if there is not enough silicone oil already present, but still enough coating left to absorb the oil.

KVD has an oddly structured statement on their web site claiming that other products use silicone oils, but KVD uses polymers.   But silicone oil is a polymer.  And KVD does not say that it is not using silicone oil. Strange.  Couldn't find an SDS.  All these fishing specific oils, lubricants, cleaners, etc., are pretty snake-oily, so my default is to be suspicious.

Fore example:  Anything that is a long chain repeating molecule of the same type is a polymer.  Wood is made up of cellulose fibers.  Cellulose is a polymer. A 2x4 is a polymer product. A product claiming to use a polymer is as unremarkable as it gets.

All of the players in this fishing specific end of the plastic protectant business seem to be small guys. They are probably just rebranding these general purpose plastic protectant products, maybe with a slight tweak to the recipe.  There is not enough money in this business to be doing a bunch of chemical design and manufacturing work for a niche market.

The major fishing line manufacturers don't appear to have any line treatment products, which tells you something.   But the big fly line manufacturers all do (Cortland, Rio, and Scientific Anglers)- which makes sense because most fly lines are made out of PVC, which is the best match for general purpose plastic protectants, and PVC fly lines go bad quickly out in the sun.  I have seen claims that one product is just rebottled Aerospace 303, which is a popular general purpose product with the fly fishing (and boating) crowd.

Getting back to abrasion protection: Silicone oil won't help with abrasion on a rough surface like a damaged guide or a rocky bottom.  Lubricants work by providing a fluid film so that the surfaces do not touch, but the surface has to be smooth enough that nothing sticks out past the film. You cant coat  220 grit sandpaper with oil to keep it from sanding. And on top of that, with braid, that oil is not going to be present on the outer surface for the reason noted several times in this thread.

-J

[JasonGotaProblem]

Dave, all that science is all well and good but I've been using this meteor repellant spray every day for 10 years and it's working like a charm.

I still appreciate flat top posting this, and I've learned things from this thread. But it's getting harder not to make the jokes.

[Flat Top]

Dave, all that science is all well and good but I've been using this meteor repellant spray every day for 10 years and it's working like a charm.

I still appreciate flat top posting this, and I've learned things from this thread. But it's getting harder not to make the jokes.

I used to use lightning repellant...until it didnt work.

Also. I researched KVD line lube...seems like good stuff but at 15.00 dollars for 4 ounces....and, with my 13 rods/reels that are in constant use that could get pretty pricey. KVD is a Polyvinylidene Fluoride (a crystalline substance) and is turned into a liquid with chemicals that are not stated. PVDF in its pure form is not dangerous for the aquatic environment but the chemicals they use to make it a liquid may be...or not. The originator of the product says it best used after it has again..... dried.

Also came across some folks in Australia and the UK (and Europe as well I am sure) that are using PTFE sprays on their lines with good results.

Most manufacturers of line lube don't state what their product fully contains. At least I know that Food Grade Silicone is just that.

[oc1]

Dave, I think fly lines are a special case.  Fly fishermen have a three-hundred-year history of rubbing stuff on their fishing line and they just can't kick the habit.  It goes back at least as far as rubbing animal fat into silk braid; albeit mostly for flotation.  A quick look at Amazon finds about a dozen fly line cleaner/conditioners on the market now.

[jurelometer]

Dave, I think fly lines are a special case.  Fly fishermen have a three-hundred-year history of rubbing stuff on their fishing line and they just can't kick the habit.  It goes back at least as far as rubbing animal fat into silk braid; albeit mostly for flotation.  A quick look at Amazon finds about a dozen fly line cleaner/conditioners on the market now.

I think that fly lines are a special case because almost all are PVC and these type of products work well on PVC.  The big producer of Urethane based fly lines (Airflo) doesn't offer a product, and states that the use is "optional".

But I think that you have a good point that putting  goop on fly lines for various  purposes for generations has made it easier to market these type of products too.

 

Dave, all that science is all well and good but I've been using this meteor repellant spray every day for 10 years and it's working like a charm.

I still appreciate flat top posting this, and I've learned things from this thread. But it's getting harder not to make the jokes.

I used to use lightning repellant...until it didnt work.

Also. I researched KVD line lube...seems like good stuff but at 15.00 dollars for 4 ounces....and, with my 13 rods/reels that are in constant use that could get pretty pricey. KVD is a Polyvinylidene Fluoride (a crystalline substance) and is turned into a liquid with chemicals that are not stated. PVDF in its pure form is not dangerous for the aquatic environment but the chemicals they use to make it a liquid may be...or not. The originator of the product says it best used after it has again..... dried.

Also came across some folks in Australia and the UK (and Europe as well I am sure) that are using PTFE sprays on their lines with good results.

Most manufacturers of line lube don't state what their product fully contains. At least I know that Food Grade Silicone is just that.

Ooh,  interesting.  Do you have a source for that info on KVD ingredients? I'm gonna look up Polyvinylidene Fluoride.

As for PTFE powder,  it is a bear to keep suspended in solution, and it doesn't stick to stuff, getting it to stick to UHMWPE is going to be impossible.  It is not a main ingredient in lubricants, it is usually just an additive.  The Varivas conditioner uses both silicone oil and PTFE.  PTFE is not much slicker than UHMWPE, it just has a higher operating temp.  I can see how an oil might help, but am struggling a bit with PTFE  for this situation.

I agree on favoring products where the ingredients are listed, or at least where there is an SDS

Dave, all that science is all well and good but I've been using this meteor repellant spray every day for 10 years and it's working like a charm.

I still appreciate Flat Top posting this, and I've learned things from this thread. But it's getting harder not to make the jokes.

To be fair to Flat Top, I think he started with a plausible claim that was not presented in absolute terms(e.g., "seems" to help with line wear).  It is not like he is flat-earthing us.

And there is this thing in fishing where people get enjoyment out of trying new stuff, sharing practices passed down from mentors, favoring a favorite lure color that maybe the fish can't even see, etc.  Engaging in these customs is part of the fun, and who am I to tell someone  else how to have fun.  But in return, these folk should be willing to accept some challenges if the science is not on their side. 

The  debate has been a little messy  because we are mixing in both the customs and the science. We can't treat these as equally strong arguments.

And taking the scientific approach doesn't guarantee that we are going to get it right. It just improves our odds. This stuff might work a little to slow down fiber fracture, or it could actually work well if we got something majorly wrong about the material properties (for example, perhaps the molecular rearrangement of UHMWPE in the gel spinning process somehow changes how it reacts with some oils).  I try to keep an open mind and hope that others do as well.  None of us know for sure. So far, I am still in the "probably little to no benefit" camp.

Plus most good innovations start with an observation, even one that might be incorrect.  I say, keep 'em coming. We shouldn't discourage folk from posting their favorite practices.

Thanks again to Flat Top for starting this thread.  Even though I am still a non-believer, I am learning stuff.

-J

[jurelometer]

Wait...
Re KVD:

I just remembered that PVDF is what fluorocarbon fishing line is made out of.  I wonder if this stuff is a spray on coating like a varnish.  Can't see how it would work as a lubricant, especially on UHMWPE.

Gonna take some more reading...

-J

[jurelometer]

Yeah, PVDF in a spray is  creating a coating, like a flexible varnish.  It will provide UV resistance, but probably  won't help much with braid fiber fracture, and won't be smoother than the original UHMWPE fiber.  Maybe if you wanted your braid a bit stiffer, it might be useful.  It will be a different approach than lubricating the line internally.

They use it mostly for a surface coating on painted metal (maybe why it is also promoted as a lure "conditioner" by KVD), but it is also one of the coating options offered by rope manufacturers, so at least in a factory environment, they can apply it on some types of fibers.

That is all I have after a quick look.

-J

[wfjord]

Dave, I think fly lines are a special case.  Fly fishermen have a three-hundred-year history of rubbing stuff on their fishing line and they just can't kick the habit.  It goes back at least as far as rubbing animal fat into silk braid; albeit mostly for flotation.  A quick look at Amazon finds about a dozen fly line cleaner/conditioners on the market now.

I think that fly lines are a special case because almost all are PVC and these type of products work well on PVC.  The big producer of Urethane based fly lines (Airflo) doesn't offer a product, and statutes that the use is "optional".

But I think that you have a good point that putting  goop on fly lines for various  purposes for generations has made it easier to market these type of products too.

Fly lines might be an exception for me. I have multiple bottles of fly line floatant & dressings, most of which have never been used. I also have 20+ fly reels and roughly as many fly lines. When the floating lines quit floating, usually I first wash and rinse them in a dish pan, which helps. I'm not as quick to treat them with floatant (partially out of forgetfulness), but I will do it in worse case scenarios. Decent fly lines aren't cheap and I do take care of them.

[Flat Top]

  Even though I am still a non-believer, I am learning stuff.

-J


[/quote]


Why dont you give it a try....that way you would know for sure whether you are a non-believer or not.