1+7 Drag Stack in a 114H Senator

[Keta]

I'll eventialy find a 114H to tinker with, right now I'm busy keeping the pasture green.

[George4741]

How can you turn down such a generous offer, Lee.  You should jump on it.

Thanks for the cool writeup...so what is the final verdict on the parts needed to hotrod a 114H?  I have one of the last US made ones never touched it was going to sell it but now seems like a fun project.  The gear ratio might make it tough to really crank on a fish but I guess a longer handle could fix that, in addition to making the gears easier to destroy

7 x #45C carbontex
1 x 6-114 HT100

do you have the part #'s of the metal washers needed from Penn?

Where do you get the double dog parts?

Reelgood, you're entering dangerous waters.   Anyway, because of the increased drag and stresses involved here, most of us will recommend an Accurate or Tib frame and a stainless gear sleeve.  And probably some other improvements I don't recall. 

I'm not happy with Penn's keyed metal washers.  They are slightly cupped, like a belleville washer and approximately .008" off from being perfectly flat.  Penn stamps them out in a die/press and doesn't machine them flat.  Dawn advertises her washers as "ground flat" and Suitekids says they are thinner than Penn's.  Soooo, I'm ordering a set of metal washers from Dawn/Smoothdrag.
George

[Jerseymic]

Hi George,
I see you mention Penn washers not being flat, found this out when I stripped my 113h. As a newcomer to all this I thought that was how they were meant to be. Then I saw Dawn advertising them ground flat as you point out, so to save them having to be posted across the pond, I flattened and polished them myself. Started with 150 wet and dry, then progressively went finer, and finally polished them with paste and a felt wheel on the dremel. Seem to have worked okay.

Mike.

[George4741]

The gear ratio might make it tough to really crank on a fish but I guess a longer handle could fix that, in addition to making the gears easier to destroy

7 x #45C carbontex
1 x 6-114 HT100

do you have the part #'s of the metal washers needed from Penn?

Where do you get the double dog parts?

I like the stock 1:2.8 gear ratio, but I want a stainless gear set to replace the bronze one; I also worry about shredding the gears.

The part # for the metal washers is (please double-check my numbers):
eared 7-115
keyed 86-115L

I think Lee and/or Sal have a line on the stainless dogs.

[Alto Mare]

It's not always about gear ratio, the spool diameter on a 114H is almost 3.5". A 2.8:1 on that particular reel is not a bad thing. With that said, I would still like to get my hands on the 3.25:1 ss gears. I'm hoping that one day  reel manufacturers will wake up and start making reels with a 5" or 6" spool in diameter and about 2.5" wide with aluminum body and ss gears ( no grphite ). Boy that would be nice, on a 2:1 ratio, that reel would retrieve about to 4' of line per crank.
It's not always about gear ratio.
A power handle is always a good upgrade, regardless of the ratio.
....Just my opinion.

[George4741]

Hi George,
I see you mention Penn washers not being flat, found this out when I stripped my 113h. As a newcomer to all this I thought that was how they were meant to be. Then I saw Dawn advertising them ground flat as you point out, so to save them having to be posted across the pond, I flattened and polished them myself. Started with 150 wet and dry, then progressively went finer, and finally polished them with paste and a felt wheel on the dremel. Seem to have worked okay.

Mike.

Mike, I'm often amazed how innovative you guys are across the pond.  Another example; a Filipino friend of mine will go to great lengths to repair auto parts and electric motors that the rest of us in the USA would just throw out and replace.  But then, "that's the way they doos it" in the PI.  It seems that very few Americans know how to use tools anymore, and the rest don't care to learn.  Whereas, in the birthplace of the industrial revolution (the UK) I hear you guys never lost that skill.  I also heard many of you know your way around a machine shop, making little steam engines and such.  Neat stuff!

Anyway, I noticed that my 113H washers were also cupped.  I put that reel on the back burner and when I go back to work on it, I might try your method.  I work only 3-4 days a week and have lots of free time.

[Jerseymic]

George,
I think we have to be innovative over here, we don't have all the wonderfull goodies readily available as you guys do.
If I could have bought ready flattened washers here I probably would have, my fingers are still sore from the rubbing backwards and forwards on the wet and dry!!!!
Unfortunatley I know my way around the wrong sort of machine shop for working on reels, being a carpenter.
I am toying with the idea of making my own stainless dogs, file, grinder, drill press, more sore fingers come to mind!!
My tools and knowledge of engineering is very limited, but I am willing to have a go.

Mike

[Alto Mare]

I have a correction on my post above.
Line retrieve on the 2:1 ratio would be 38" not 48"....thanks for bringing this to my attention John.
Wow, imagine a gear ratio of 3.25:1, you would be able to retrieve around 65" per crank.
We have to try to build this reel

[Jerseymic]

George,

I forgot to mention when flattening the washers, to hold them, I used a piece of dowel just smaller than the diameter of the washer, and stuck double sided tape on the bottom to hold the washer. Plastic or any dowel that won't soak up water is best because once wood gets wet the tape won't stick.
The only pain is having to change the tape for each side of the washer, but this way at least you keep your fingertips away from the wet and dry, as I found out to my cost, with a ground down fingertip!!

Mike.

[Keta]

Unfortunatley I know my way around the wrong sort of machine shop for working on reels, being a carpenter.
I am toying with the idea of making my own stainless dogs, file, grinder, drill press, more sore fingers come to mind!!
My tools and knowledge of engineering is very limited, but I am willing to have a go.

Mike

After I met the water cutter my fingerprints grew back and I'm now polishing SS dogs and drag washers in a rock polisher with ceramic media.  The water cut ones are just as nice as the hand cut ones.

I don't think a small amount of cupping is a big problem but I prefer flat metal washers and in the past used sharpening stones to make the factory ones flat.

We have to try to build this reel

Yup!

[Alto Mare]

I don't think a small amount of cupping is a big problem but I prefer flat metal washers and in the past used sharpening stones to make the factory ones flat.

Me too, I've been using Scott's for a while now and never had problems. I believe that the washers sit in flat under load, I wouldn't worry about a little cupping

[Alto Mare]

We have to try to build this reel

Yup!

I know of a guy that could help me do it...if he wanted to .

[redsetta]

I know of a guy that could help me do it...if he wanted to  .

You're a master of subtlety Sal 

[George4741]

I don't think a small amount of cupping is a big problem but I prefer flat metal washers and in the past used sharpening stones to make the factory ones flat.

Me too, I've been using Scott's for a while now and never had problems. I believe that the washers sit in flat under load, I wouldn't worry about a little cupping

Normally I'm not concerned, either.  But I have a theory that since the HT100's are thicker, they are softer and compress some, even if the cupped washers don't completely flatten out under heavy pressure.  The paper thin carbontex is harder and I think the cupped washers may not make full surface contact except under extreme pressure.  I can't prove my theory, but I feel better about using flat washers.  And, it's all about making me feel good.      

[Alto Mare]

  I can't prove my theory, but I feel better about using flat washers.  And, it's all about making me feel good.      

George, when you feel good we feel good . Cheers!