the true about abec ratings??

[thedw]

 Hi guys!
been reading articles off the internet and was wondering if you guys could point me in the right direction!
from this link http://www.lushlongboards.com/workshop/abec-ratings-explained-c-199_200.html it states that there is no difference in terms of smoothness and spin duration between abec 1 and abec 9 bearings? so it is worth the money to invest in boca abec 5 or 7 bearings? so in your opinion if i were to get casting bearings which grade shld i get them in?( I read from a post somewhere that abec 7 would have too much tolerance ? than a abec 5 and abec 7 would actually be counter-productive? WHAT DOES THIS MEAN??)

also whats the diff between SS and ceramic bearings? any noticeable diff in casting?

third point : which bearings do i pack with grease and which with oil/teflon dry lube? if i pack bearings with grease will i make the bearings sluggish??

4th point: does teflon lube work in terms of corrosion resistance and smoothness?

[alantani]

not a big fan of dry teflon anymore.  it doesn't last.  packing a bearing with grease will make it last longer, but will make it sluggish.  the big difference i see between ceramic and stainless is the cost.  for our low speed, low tech application, the abec rating really does not matter that much.  stick with abec 5 when possible. 

[inhotpursuit]

Hi guys!
been reading articles off the internet and was wondering if you guys could point me in the right direction!
from this link http://www.lushlongboards.com/workshop/abec-ratings-explained-c-199_200.html it states that there is no difference in terms of smoothness and spin duration between abec 1 and abec 9 bearings? so it is worth the money to invest in boca abec 5 or 7 bearings? so in your opinion if i were to get casting bearings which grade shld i get them in?( I read from a post somewhere that abec 7 would have too much tolerance ? than a abec 5 and abec 7 would actually be counter-productive? WHAT DOES THIS MEAN??)

also whats the diff between SS and ceramic bearings? any noticeable diff in casting?

third point : which bearings do i pack with grease and which with oil/teflon dry lube? if i pack bearings with grease will i make the bearings sluggish??

4th point: does teflon lube work in terms of corrosion resistance and smoothness?

Not all bearings have Abec ratings some have a P rating  P 2  and Abec 9 being the highest precision.
The higher the precision the tighter the tolerance,an abec 1 bearing would have a looser tolerance and will spin quite freely however the lower tolerance will cause some slop and eventually some damage,most reel manufacturers settle with Abec 3 or P6 and some will even use Abec 5 or P5.a higher tolerance Abec 9 or P2 will be tighter and even a light coating of oil can make them seem sluggish these are great and really smooth in a slow speed application but can be too tight for high speed, Abec 3 - 7 /P6-4 are generally the best for spool and spool pinion bearings.
Bearings packed with grease will be slower than a bearing packed with light oil and would be used in drive bearings and handle bearings all other steel bearings should have light oil or corrosion X.
Ceramic bearings come in two types , ceramic hybrid has ceramic balls and steel races some have steel retainers some nylon or peek, full ceramic bearings have the balls and races made of ceramic with peek or nylon retainers,generally speaking the ceramic balls are harder have a higher tolerance and are rounder than steel balls.
The advantage of ceramic hybrids is they can be run without oil making them faster i personally treat the ceramic hybrids with TSI 321 and then dry and spin the bearings with a long blast of 25psi air,i only use  ceramics in casting reels and then only in place of the spool/ pinion bearings,my personal baitcasters have full Si3N4 ceramics which require no lube at all but they must be cleaned on a regular basis in my opinion ceramic or ceramic hybrids will out cast most S/S bearings but they do require continuous upkeep.

[Keta]

For low speed applications like reels I don't see the need for super close tolerance bearings.

[Irish Jigger]

For low speed applications like reels I don't see the need for super close tolerance bearings.

Nor do I see the need for ball bearings when bushes are so durable and and never need cleaning.
That is my experience from 60 years of using bushed Penns.

20% need 80% marketing.

[inhotpursuit]

I'm really not talking of the old Penns and low speed reels here i was talking about bearings for high speed applications on most of todays high performance baitcasting reels,most newer baitcasters can get spool speeds from 18,000 -20,000 rpm, my shimano DC reels can hit upwards of 30,000 rpm  when set to extreme settings in those cases low tolerance bearings and cintered bushings will not allow that speed, like i said in the post i only use the higher quality ceramics on the spool bearings the other  drive bearings are stock stainless steel A-RB pressure filled with yamaha marine grease as are all the bearings on my  spinning reels.

[Keta]

Reels are not "high speed" applications when considering bearings and the loadings are not heavy with the exception of side loading on pinion bearings on a LD reel.

[Dr. Jekyll - AKA MeL B]

here's by wikepedia;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABEC_scale

[buitrechico]

I wonder if it is really worth using reels with the latest technology and incredibly expensive price (Daiwa 7 HT  Super-Tuned or the new Shimano with electronic/magnetic brake cast control) just for fishing.I think they're ok for longcasting competitions.Also if ceramic or hybrid ceramic bearings do require continuous upkeep,what's the benefit?For a good long distance casting you also need a good rod and a very good casting technique, and of course special rigs.

[Keta]

There is a time and place for bearings, flylining small live bait with large reels and competition casting are two.  Reel bearings are exposed to nasty things and tight tolerance bearings are more likely to fail when contaminated.  For the majority of our needs a plain bearing (bushing) is all that is needed. 

[Jeri]

Hi All,

Read the web page that 'Thedw' highlighted, and the opinions and conclusions of the author were related to skate boards, and perhaps not relevant to fishing reels – so, his conclusions could be quite correct – though what I know about skate boards you could fit in a very small teaspoon.

However, and we have been round this debate before, in some fishing reel applications, high speed and higher tolerance bearings do have a place. I speak from the point of view for distance surf casting, where an average spool speed in a cast is likely to be in the range 16,000-21,000 rpm; and in that same cast there will be times when spool speeds are likely to be possibly a third higher than the average – so, possibly 21,000-28,000 rpm.

In a surf casting situation as such, spool acceleration and top speed are critical to attain the distances required, and vibration due to lower quality bearings is going to kill the distances achieved. This however, is perhaps not the case with a good number of other fishing applications, trolling, jigging, or general less specialist fishing situations, and as such super high tolerances in ball bearings are not a beneficial requirement. And I would accept that in some of those situations, bushings could well have a place, or even in certain locations within a surf casting reel, but certainly not in connection with the spool.

As 'inhotpursuit' states, ceramics are a high maintenance solution for those needing real spool speed applications. However, on the flip side there is the whole issue in the majority of cases is one of 'bragging rights', very much like the use of SiC rings, which unless you are frequently fishing for tunas, wahoo or sailfish, they are of little benefit on a fishing rod  where the majority of other ceramic inserts can do an equal job – we are even seeing folks fit them to surf rods – perhaps they are hoping to catch wahoo in the surf??? – Fitting super high tolerance bearings, ceramic or stainless steel is in most cases beyond the skills or even needs of the angler to fully utilise, but in certain circumstances they are of serious benefit.

Ceramic bearings are a quick sales item that pretty much give instant 'high spool' speeds, though they are not without their problems, and within our market place here in Namibia, they are not favoured now that we are getting similar performance from stainless steel bearings (ABEC 7) with dry Teflon lubrication. However, in our service shop, we have found that very few anglers can actually benefit from the higher speeds that we can attain with such a set up, and they usually benefit from something of a lower 'tune' set of bearings/lubricant combination – or they are coming back asking for the reel to be slowed down. Which is a case of getting the braking system working right, whether it is the recent Shimano electromagnetic system, traditional centrifugal blocks or ordinary magnets. Getting a reel spool to spin faster is not the problem, as we do in surf casting need serious initial acceleration, getting the top speed under control is usually the issue – to then match this to the guy or gal doing the casting is our greater challenge. The issue here is that it is always easier to slow a spool down, rather than get it to go faster from a greased ball bearing situation.

The rest of the bearings are best served as is the consensus – stainless steel packed with grease – of whatever grade the original manufacturer chose – finer tolerances are not really going to benefit the reel or its performance.

So, in the end it is a case of horses for courses, and we can't make global generalisations about what is good, bad or even necessary. In most surf situations, we rarely need a reel that offers a drag rating of over 20lbs, so as a surf angler, is it fair for me to say  that all reels with drags over 20lbs are a waste of time???

Perhaps we should have asked 'Thedw', what application are you using the reel? – Then we can answer the question.

Just my 1 penny worth.

Cheers from sunny Africa,

Jeri

[inhotpursuit]

I use my shimano DC reels for fishing not competition casting,the two conquest dc reels are 2004 the antares DC's are 2007 the scorpion a 2010 the CQ201DC is used for saltwater as is one of the antares 201's, i use them for casting large top water lures for threadfin salmon in manila bay when they go on a frenzy you need to get that lure on the target as fast as possible , the reels all have custom cut carbontex washers and full ceramic spool bearings,all the drive and handle bearings are A-RB and pressure filled with yamaha marine grease using Alans reel bearing greaser,these reels are super reliable,super strong,super smooth and cast beutifully the rods i use are also top quality.

[Dr. Jekyll - AKA MeL B]

bearings is only a part of the equation, my 2 cents...

[Pro Reel]

Because i specialize in freshwater bass fishing gear, I have done a lot of research into bearings. I have tested almost every brand, type and abec rating. I have had profesional anglers on the elite tournament trail test bearings for me. These guys have no idea what bearings i put in there reels, just a numbered reel. My conclusion is that the abec rating is over rated. Bearing design is much more important for what we are looking for. What we want in a bearing is very low friction and high quality. You get that by the design of the cages and raceways. When my anglers did blind tests of identicaly designed bearing in various abec ratings, they could not tell any difference in performance or casting distance between an abec 5 and an abec 7. My conclusion on that is that the abec rating is for engineers that need a bearing that can spin at extremly high speed for a very long time without developing any vibration. The speeds they are talking about are in excess of 50,000 rpm before you need higher than abec 3 and 90,000 before you need higher than abec 5. The abec 9 bearing reels did not perform as well as the abec 5 did for distance and ease of casting. My conclusion from that was that the bearing tolerances are so tight that they don't spin easy, but they do spin smooth.

If you are looking to improve casting distance, consider a low contact cage design with highly polished race ways in an abec 5 rating and no higher than that is needed.

Ceramic bearings. We are normally talking about ceramic hybrids when refering to ceramic bearings. Ceramic hybrids have ceramic balls inside a steel cage. Ceramic is much smoother than steel so they have less friction. I have found that the best and most affordable bearing for super free casting is the abec 5 rated ceramic hybrids from boca bearings. They call them the lightning series. They have a very low contact cage design with steel shields and ceramic balls. I have gotten better free spool performance from the abec 7 ceramic hybrid orange seal bearings with the rubber seals removed, but also found that they need to be cleaned very often as the tolerance is so close that they seem to slow down fast from any buildup inside them.

[bluefish69]

Pro Reel

I have a few Newell's with Abtec 7's in them. I use them for throwing Iron for Blue Fish. Do you leave the Orange Shields out or replace them after lubing them.