Experimenting with the 113H drags

[Mandelstam]

I was just wondering in what temperature range brake fade is likely to happen. Carbon fibre is very heat resistant (depending on the resin involved) as well as steel and cal's drag grease. I understand that the temperature will be higher inside of the reel than in Sal's tests but will it be so high as to cause a loss of drag?

I'm not saying I know that it won't, I'm just asking... Have there maybe been tests made? Like before and after a long run on heavy drags? I'm talking now of carbon fiber drag setups.

[Alto Mare]

Hello Kalr, 145  was only taken after 2 minutes of spinning at 20lb, I believe it would generate way more heat out in the real world.
Dominick ( Pescachase ) mentioned to me that the Tank did good, but got really hot. Heat buildup is not a good thing, no matter which drag material you're using. I've seen a 16/0 fail, due to heat buildup and yes, the carbon fiber do get glazed over from heat. I don't know how much heat it will take to get them to that point and I don't have any interest in getting involved to find out.
My test, as stated above, was to find out if perforated metal washers generate less heat  than a  solid washer, under the same conditions.
This test could have been done with less force or more, it doesn't really matter. The important thing is to find out if there is any differences between the two. I believe I was able to prove it ....well, to myself anyway.
The bottom line is, any reduction on heat buildup is a good thing.
Cheers!
Sal

[Robert Janssen]

I was just wondering in what temperature range brake fade is likely to happen. Carbon fibre is very heat resistant (depending on the resin involved) as well as steel and cal's drag grease. I understand that the temperature will be higher inside of the reel than in Sal's tests but will it be so high as to cause a loss of drag?

I'm not saying I know that it won't, I'm just asking... Have there maybe been tests made? Like before and after a long run on heavy drags? I'm talking now of carbon fiber drag setups.

I myself have tested various types of carbon fiber friction material (and many others) to temperatures approaching 200 degrees C (~400 F) with little or no indication of fade and very little wear, over one high speed test as well as several tests repeated. (I am not alone in this... Cal Sheets, Dennis Bunker, Jack Erskine as well as reel manufacturers such as Penn have all done extensive experiments and testing. (this, by the way, is where Penn found their name HT-100: High Temperature, 100 hours)

The holy grail in the hunt for the perfect friction material would be to find one that shows a perfectly flat line on a graph depicting changes according to temperature, sliding velocity, values of static vs dynamic coefficients of friction and so on.

And, HT-100 and its siblings Carbontex and DuraDrag come very, very close to doing just that. And that is precisely why we use it.

Doc.

.

[Mandelstam]

I was just wondering in what temperature range brake fade is likely to happen. Carbon fibre is very heat resistant (depending on the resin involved) as well as steel and cal's drag grease. I understand that the temperature will be higher inside of the reel than in Sal's tests but will it be so high as to cause a loss of drag?

I'm not saying I know that it won't, I'm just asking... Have there maybe been tests made? Like before and after a long run on heavy drags? I'm talking now of carbon fiber drag setups.

I myself have tested various types of carbon fiber friction material (and many others) to temperatures approaching 200 degrees C (~400 F) with little or no indication of fade and very little wear, over one high speed test as well as several tests repeated. (I am not alone in this... Cal Sheets, Dennis Bunker, Jack Erskine as well as reel manufacturers such as Penn have all done extensive experiments and testing. (this, by the way, is where Penn found their name HT-100: [bold]H[/bold]igh [bold]T[/bold]emperature, 100 hours)


The holy grail in the hunt for the perfect friction material would be to find one that shows a perfectly flat line on a graph depicting changes according to temperature, sliding velocity, values of static vs dynamic coefficients of friction and so on.

And, HT-100 and its siblings Carbontex and DuraDrag come very, very close to doing just that. And that is precisely why we use it.

Doc.

.

Another thing clarified Thanks, Doc!

[Mandelstam]

Hello Kalr, 145  was only taken after 2 minutes of spinning at 20lb, I believe it would generate way more heat out in the real world.
Dominick ( Pescachase ) mentioned to me that the Tank did good, but got really hot. Heat buildup is not a good thing, no matter which drag material you're using. I've seen a 16/0 fail, due to heat buildup and yes, the carbon fiber do get glazed over from heat. I don't know how much heat it will take to get them to that point and I don't have any interest in getting involved to find out.
My test, as stated above, was to find out if perforated metal washers generate less heat  than a  solid washer, under the same conditions.
This test could have been done with less force or more, it doesn't really matter. The important thing is to find out if there is any differences between the two. I believe I was able to prove it ....well, to myself anyway.
The bottom line is, any reduction on heat buildup is a good thing.
Cheers!
Sal

We're all very greatful for your experiments! I for one have learned so much about the inner workings of a reel from reading your posts Sal!

And I agree, to keep it cool is a fundamental thing in fishing! And not just your head.


Karl

[Alto Mare]

And I agree, to keep it cool is a fundamental thing in fishing! And not just your head.


Karl

I try not to let it get to me Karl, I'm a very easy going guy
Sorry I spelled your name wrong up above, no disrespect, just too early in the morning.
Take care bud.
Sal

[Mandelstam]

Take care bud.
Sal

X2

[Ron Jones]

Thanks Doc, great information.

As Sal and Bryan have shown with their recent experiments, reels can actually get hot to the tuch. Definatly to the point of becoming uncomfortable if not to the point that skin is burnt. To me, that's a great reason to work towards heat build up.

Ron

[raumati01]

Thought this might interest you with the heat reduction aspect you guys are working on.http://www.fishing.net.nz/asp_forums/the-guts-of-a-studio-ocean-mark-spool_topic93299.html

[Bunnlevel Sharker]

If your gonna pour water on a reel, especially if it has mono, then don't pour it all over! Just on the drag star and gear box area

[Ron Jones]

Thought this might interest you with the heat reduction aspect you guys are working on.http://www.fishing.net.nz/asp_forums/the-guts-of-a-studio-ocean-mark-spool_topic93299.html

Looks to me like the radiator is a metal drag disk with holes in it, where have I seen that lately?
Ron

[WreckinBall]

I am new to this board, but not new to tinkering with reels, and I have THOROUGHLY enjoyed reading this thread.  Thank you!

[Alto Mare]

Hello WreckinBall, I'm glad you enjoyed it.
There are a couple of guys here that can actully make reel better than anything out there.
Welcome aboard and enjoy your stay.
Sal

[floating doc]

If your gonna pour water on a reel, especially if it has mono, then don't pour it all over! Just on the drag star and gear box area

Please explain why.

[Bryan Young]

That's the only area that will get hot due to the friction of the drags.