drag: questions and thoughts

[euy]

got some questions about drag.  i mainly work on 200 and 300 newells and 4/0 penns.

on some reels that i have done drags on, they are smooth but have a little tick when pulling line off of them.  the tick is the best way i can describe it, it's not jerky or sticky just a tick, tick, tick as you pull line off.  i have seen this with all drags that i have used: smoothies, super smoothies, HT100 dry and greased, shimano felt drags, and newell drags.  is it the metal washers? or the surface of the gears not being super smooth?  or the ID of the gears sticking on the sleeve?  not really sure what it is.

lastly, what creates drag pressure?  drag surface area?  not really sure if that's true, in the case of 113H or 4/0 i converted all mine to 3 thick newell washers (which by the way are the best drags that i have ever put in a 4/0) vs the 6 HT100s and i get equals amounts of drag.  so theoretically, the 6 HT100s have more drag surface equals more drag pressure but that's not the case.  or with vintage newell gears with the recessed 4th drag, technically they have more draf surface than the 3 drag version gears but they have equally the same amount of drag pressure. 

so what are you thoughts. 

[Newell Nut]

If that tick is when you are spinning spool or freelining I have seen it once on a 447 that needed a new pinion. Replaced the pinion and thick went away.

[redsetta]

lastly, what creates drag pressure?  drag surface area?  

G'day euy, in a word, no - but it's more complicated than that and has been the subject of many a long discourse before.
Probably worth doing a search within the site, as it's all been covered to varying degrees (ie try here: http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=7652.0;topicseen)
However, just to answer your question as simply and succinctly as possible (and bearing in mind I'm an enthusiast and not an expert), drag is a function of friction and force, ie the friction between the CF and the metal washers, and the force with which they're pushed together.
All the best, Justin

[Alto Mare]

I wouldn't compare the 1+3 stack with the 1+5  on a same reel. The star doesn't have much travel on the 1+3 and gets you to its max drag quickly, the 1+5 will get you there gradually.

[euy]

thanks for the replys guys.  that was an interesting read.  

the tick i am talking about is when the reel is engaged and i am pulling line off the spool against the drag.  on some of my reels i can get a really smooth drag on others i get smooth plus the tick.  can't figure it out.  need to try some new things out, polishing out the inside of the gears and metal washers.

i only compare the two (1+3 and 1+5) because that is what is offered for the 113H.  i am not really interested in max drag pressure just smooth performance.  i can get more than enough drag pressure to fish 40 or 50 lb on both drags (15 lbs) in my narrow 113H but i find that the performance from the thick newell washers is far superior.  they are a lot smoother than the greased HT100s.

[Bryan Young]

It might be the line.  As the line stretches, it sometimes digs in just enough to give you that little tick you are talking about as it pulls off the spool.  It occurs mainly when you are using mono.

[Makule]

If you can feel the "tick" even when under fairly light pressure (not enough for the line to bite into itself), then that's not the cause.  If it's there only under lots of pressure, look at the line and check to see if that's the cause.

If not line related, mark the spool, and note where that "tick" occurs.  It should be fairly regular.  If once per revolution, it's likely a pinion gear issue.  If less than once per revolution and at about the gear ratio, then it's likely a main gear issue.

If it is random and not any of the above, then further investigation is needed (in which case, clean everything out very thoroughly and see if the "tick" can be duplicated).  Could be also related to grit between the teeth, grit in the bearings, grit in the sleeve, etc.

So much fun you can have trying to find it.  Just like playing hide and seek.

[franky]

So much fun you can have trying to find it.  Just like playing hide and seek.

Finding a needle in a haystack...or pin the tail on a donkey in a pitch black dark room.    Lots of fun. 

[euy]

it's definitely not the line digging into itself when pulling on the line. 

thanks again for the help.  i'll try that stuff out.

i notice mostly when i use greased HT100s.  maybe not enough grease (i use both shimano drag grease and cal's drag grease) and sometimes with the smoothie drags (non grease).  i find that is occurs the least with newell drags, i am running low on my newell drag inventory so hopefully i can figure it out.   

[Alto Mare]

Could be related to your clutch assembly, try a different Jack first and see what happens.

[Lunker Larry]

For the clicking, could it be the anti reverse dog? The same thing occurs on ABU 7000s when the drag is loose and you pull out line.

[Shark Hunter]

I agree with Sal. More Drags, Mo Better!
I probably put too much grease in my reels when I rebuild them. I think it makes them smoother and less likely to corrode inside. I noticed this tick as well on the smaller senators.
Right before I button up a reel, I'll take a brush and slop in as much grease as I can around the main gear, turning it as I go. Also around the eccentric, pinion and the Jack. Feels like butter!   It can't get in the drags from the other side. I also make sure the dog hasn't worn a flat spot. If it has, its time for replacement with a new spring. No more tick!

[Bunnlevel Sharker]

To much grease on the beach is no bueno, it will end up being like a mortar mixer in there. The sand will get all in the grease. As for at high drag, the mon will crackle as it is stretched and rolls of under the pressure

[Shark Hunter]

Unless I actually build a sand castle on top of my reel, I can't see sand actually getting inside of it.
I'm sure it will happen over time. That's why they get serviced after a workout.
I don't sit my reel in the sand, it goes right from my hand to the rod holder. Even if I have to make several trips back to the truck. Most of my rods are rollers. I know sand and rollers are not good bedfellows either.

[Bunnlevel Sharker]

Oh there great till they need to roll hook up on a nice un and you'll be making string cheese with heavy mono! And it will sound like rats going at it. Not a good sound